Redartz: We all have our favorite characters, favorite titles, favorite stories. We also have our personal "unggghh" lists: comics we wouldn't line the cat's litter box with. Like many things in life, though, the majority of comic stories lie somewhere in the middle. You know, that vast category of ok tales: not awful, but not High Classics either. The "meh..." books.
My favorite character has always been Spider-man ; definitely a first tier character, but one with his share of "meh". Over the years he has been the focus of many brilliant tales, and some real dogs as well. It got frustrating at times, back in the Bronze Age (note how I snuck that in) , collecting each issue regardless of its quality. I would compare it to contemporary titles like X-Men , which at the time could do no wrong . While Claremont and Byrne were reaching ever higher peaks, Spidey was dredging along with the likes of Hydro-Man, Madame Web and Tarantula .But that was okay, it was just the nature of comics...
Anyway, looking back now, there is more enjoyment than I expected in some of those 'average' stories. For instance, I recently read Amazing Spider-man 157-159. It was a story arc that I hadn't read since originally buying them off the stands. Although it featured one of my favorite villains, in the personage of Dr. Octopus, I recalled it only as pretty unremarkable. In fact, there was a rather long run on ASM that left me sometimes wondering why I kept buying it. Not that they were bad per se, simply nothing memorable.
Yet upon re-reading those three issues now, it held up better than I would have thought. Still no epic, but a fairly entertaining superhero romp. This got me thinking about why I liked it now more than before. Perhaps nostalgia, perhaps it compares better against too many current comics that read quickly, with sparse dialogue and very little characterization. One of the big draws of Bronze Age comics was the 'Soap opera ' aspect. That is, presenting enough supporting cast turmoil to keep the reader interested. And for longer than merely a six issue TPB type run (after all, you have to follow a storyline long enough to get to know, and care about, any character). Again, looking back, some of the stories I found less memorable tended to contain less subplot, focusing basically on the hero in costume to the exclusion of much else.
And, of course, the appeal of a given story to a given reader is quite subjective. What I found ho-hum, another might consider a classic...
Long story short- even comics that collect dust in back issue bins have some appeal. I found the same holds true with Batman, Justice League, Fantastic Four, and other 'top tier' books . If you love the character, you are more able to endure those periods of lackluster art and flat writing. And maybe even the Gibbon!
So what kept you following your favorites during the droughts? Have you tried going back to some of the issues you had sighed at, and if so, how did they hold up? Your thoughts, please...
14 comments:
I agree that when Byrne and Claremont were writing, it's striking to see how some books, particularly on the DC side, seemed to be just limping along in comparison. I remember that Jim Shooter once offered something to the effect that the current trend of restarting titles every two years or so to create a "jumping-on point," was misguided and that every issue should be a jumping-on point. I think that was what a lot of these issues tried to be as the old "one-and-done" stories. The usual selling point for me, however, was always the villain. I still have that Spider-man with Mesmero, which was my first introduction to the character. If the villain had a specific identity, even if it was kind of weak, it was still better than a generic robber, gangster, alien, wizard, or another hero who was misguided, brainwashed, amnesiac or operating with a hidden agenda.
Redartz, On your ASM example, I'd say you'd have good reason for calling the ASM 157-159 story arc disappointing. I haven't read it myself, but based on your reflection, it would be lack-lustrous after one of my personal fav ASM story arcs with Aunt May marrying Doc Ock back in 130-131. I was riding high on my ASM love during that time, recalling a snowy day in Wisconsin, walking home with these issues from the local comic/gift store. I couldn't wait to read about the wedding and I WAS NOT DISAPPOINTED. It was an amazing story and became a big fan of both Ock and Hammerhead.
Suffice to say, I did stop my ASM collecting when Gwen's clone arrived. The spark and excitement I felt during her death and the dozen issues afterwards was phenominal; but with the advent of both Andru art and more and more animal villains, to me the series didn't feel like it was going anywhere.
As for other comics, the Avengers post-200 issues were mainly picked up a back issues, so I collected just to fill holes, feeling both nauseated with the YellowJacket demise, then terribly underwhelmed with both the follow-on art and storylines. Call me a early-Bronze Purist, I had stopped reading both them and the FF at what seemed like appropriate stopping points, before they continued what-I-considered descents from initial collecting greatness.
Luckily I also stopped with CA&F when Kirby came on all those years ago, but in retrospect I am now planning to revisit the Madbomb saga via the TPB.
Redartz - great topic and analysis!
I can relate to your soap opera comments, especially as relates to ASM. My peak interest was from Gwen/Goblin death issues to about #150. So, I can agree with all the above from david_b but I actually did make it through the Clone/Jackal stories and rather enjoyed those. Hey, I was in full-fledged zuvembie mode.
But, I think the soap opera is what made it special...Would Harry follow in dad's footsteps (of course)? Would Pete get with MJ now (sure)?...Who is the Jackal (gasp Professor Warren! I don't know about that one.)?
Tom
I have that Spidey issue with Ramrod; Spidey wins by using a magnetic crane to grab Ramrod's metal head ... how is that not considered a classic? :)
I guess I'm a bit like you, I loved Spidey so I just kept reading it, through good and bad issues. Same with DD or JLA. Even the bad ones were (for the most part) still entertaining. (Of course, there are a few exceptions, like the issue of Amazing with Red Nine, or that Batman issue with Kite Man as the villain.)
Mike Wilson
Many thanks for joining in today, all!
Selenarch- That Shooter quote is right on target. Any issue may be a starting point for someone. And you're right, a unique villain beats a generic opponent any day.
David_b- that story you mentioned in ASM 130-131 is memorable to me as well. They were on the stands right when I started reading and collecting. However, I hung with the web-slinger regularly until about issue 270, and irregularly all the way to #700. Talk about ups and downs. At what point did you return to the title, and if you did, what attracted you?
Tom- same question, after giving it up, did anything about the book appeal enough to bring you back?
Mike W.- you got me! I haven't read the Ramrod story since it came out, only recall being unimpressed. But you're right, gotta love a magnet to the head...
Great question! My challenge is that I dropped ASM and FF b/c Conway killed Stacey and had Sue serve Reed divorce papers (he must have had an unhappy childhood?) and dropping Colan from DD. (I was like 12 years old.). But once I stopped reading them I displaced comics with literature, magazines, and newspapers. Really never looked back except when I suddenly had free time and went to comic shows for kicks. At one show in Chicago I bought a 30issue run of the Legion (around theDeath of Ferro Lad from mid 1960s) for like $20. What a great run by Shooter! Anyhow, once I dropped the regular comic reads I just found other great series! Cheers!
I stopped reading entirely in the Fall of 81 or so. The letdown of the post-Byrne X-Men, between the poor art and overweening plots, as well as disappointment of JB's FF run (I know, a lot of folks love it, I never warmed to his scratchy self-inking and vastly preferred TA's smooth embellishments) and the silly Avengers 200 issue, were the catalyst (as well as girls, I suppose!).
Quick question to our hosts: how is the blog's traffic numbers compared to BSB?
Yoyp
Red,
Nothing brought me back but, conversely, what put me off was Peter Parker the Spectacular Spiderman #1, referenced yesterday by our friend Steve Does Comics. His assessment that PPSS came off as an attempt to extract cash while also making ASM less unique and magical was spot on.
That, and I went on to high school, etc.
So the magic was gone but was fun while it lasted. :-)
Tom
Redartz, thanks much for the follow-on question. I guess I like Tom's line as my essential response.., "The magic was gone but was fun while it lasted..."
I picked up an occasional ASM, Avengers, CA&F, MTU and FF in the remaining years of the '70s, but more so for casual interest only, choosing to remember the 'good ol days' rather than spend more on then-current stuff I really didn't have a passion for. I stuck with Batman Family for a while, but the Donny Heck art even ruined that after a while.
Like already said by others, I floated in and out of books as they ebbed and flowed but some of my favorites are those odd "2nd Tier" stories. I really liked the first appearance of Will-O-The-Wisp in ASM with Ross Andru art and most of the Len Wein run on FF and a lot of Marvel Two In One outside of the Project Pegasus arc. And I don't think any of those are considered classic or great. But there were a lot of smaller, character developing, fairly succinct storytelling in those. And I still contend that a lot of the covers were really quite good on some of those even if the villain was goofy or weak or a one-hit wonder. Some of my favorites were DD before Miller took over. Angar the Screamer anybody????
Charlie Horse 47- those Shooter Legion stories are entertaining; some of the best writing found in Silver Age DC.
Yoyo- We don't have the lofty levels the BAB enjoyed yet, but we're growing! Thanks for hanging out with us.
Tom and david_b- I understand about "the magic". Comics have always held my interest, even today, and good reading remains there to be found. Yet as you both reflected, there was a special 'something' about that era; an eager urgency to the collecting and reading that I haven't felt since.
Marti- You're spot on about those covers! That Amazing Spider-Man cover featuring Will-O-the -Wisp was a typical Romita gem, iirc...
And I too enjoyed the pre-Miller DD (like, whatever happened to the Jester?}. Another potential review, perhaps?
Wow! Anger the Screamer! I do remember him! Glad to see some of my brain cells are still working 45 years later! Wasn't he hippy-like with long hair and vest???
Yes Redartz, a SPLENDID IDEA on pre-Miller DD. I essentially started my DD/BW collecting around ish 104, and last year, I started filling up most of my DD collection holes up until the Miller tenure.
Agreed at times, the title did wrestle with some direction issues and tired villains but all-in-all, the later issues with Natasha were interesting for how Gerber and others handled the fall-out of their partners/romantic relationship.
Sometimes border-lining on risqué, other times drawn heavily to accent a cold indifference between the two characters. Very well drawn out.
Yes Charlie Horse, Angar was that hippie with the furry vest who would scream and the sound would drive people mad. Moondragon actually played a role in his origin as he was to be a weapon against Thanos. That didn't work out too well as he went rogue and went after DD and Black Widow. There were some creepy tales in Iron Fist and in Spider-Woman with Angar. Those were written by Claremont and I would recommend the stories (especially the Iron Fist with Byrne art).Angar was also tied to Screaming Mimi before she joined the Thunderbolts as Songbird - she is really an interesting character with a nice development arc; her character in my opinion is a highlight of the aluminum age at Marvel.
Yoyo - we hope you like what we are doing here. Spread the word if you do The more the merrier. Our numbers aren't bad but not quite up to previous standards. We have large spikes on certain topics and other ideas fall flat. We had a pretty nice first month though and we are still learning and growing. We are definitely happy about all the comments from both old friends and new faces. Always feel free to let us know how you all think we are doing.
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