This & That: Our ...Somewhat Less Than Favorite Covers...

Redartz:  Hi folks! Not long ago we did a post about our favorite comic covers. In the interests of balance and full coverage, it seems natural to consider the other side of the coin: covers that, shall we say, didn't light our fires. And this is not to disrespect any particular title or artist; it's just that these covers failed the 'cover would make me buy it' test by a long shot.

First off:  This cover for Avengers Annual 10. For the most part, I like Al Milgrom's work, but this cover is just way too cluttered. All those panels, unevenly spaced. An overabundance of text certainly doesn't help. And this doesn't even address the "Columbia" banner across the top. As great as the interior was, the cover wasn't.

 Next up are two covers from Ross Andru, featuring the banner characters of each of the Big Two. As with Milgrom, I usually like Andru's work. At least, his interiors. Somehow, though, I always felt he lacked something when it came to his covers. On Superman, it just looks blocky- there were numerous such covers about that time. Kind of an uncomfortable viewing angle; good thing Supes wasn't turned a bit or we'd have gotten a Super booty shot. As for Spiderman 157, again we have some rather clunky figures; along with a flat background. Coming during the heyday of John Romita covers, seeing this from Ross was dismaying...

Turning to a couple of my favorite artists, here are examples that just go to show that nobody's perfect. Avengers 162 by George Perez? Not a bad cover, certainly. But as good as he usually is, this seems a bit unremarkable. And the action is difficult to follow; the composition seems rather scattershot. And Ultron looks a bit cartoonish, strangely.

 My other bronze age favorite: John Byrne, of course! But not because of this cover, I'm afraid. Byrne could do wonders depicting Ben Grimm, so what happened here? Fantastic Four 274 is the book, and our rocky friend Ben is the subject. But he almost gets lost amongst the rubble and bricks. Even the Thing's look seems off. Strange, as Byrne provided some fabulous cover art during this same era. Again, nobody's perfect.















Speaking of perfection, many folks would consider Jack Kirby the perfect comics artist. He's always the King in my book, but even he has some clunkers. This cover for Fantastic Four 78 always struck me as off; especially Ben Grimm's human face. That's quite a nose he's got there.  As for his later work, some of it was incredibly cool. However this cover for 2001 issue 2 looks like an ad for Max Factor mascara. Kirby could get pretty loose with some of his later drawing, but this cover was a bit too loose for my tastes. 
 

And how about this cover for Daredevil 69 by Sal Buscema? For one thing, that's a lot of prominent word balloons. Especially distracting against that black background. As for the art itself, Daredevil looks like he bulked up quite a bit. He almost resembles one of Carmine Infantino's famous DC apes. And it's a minor thing, but it bothers me: DD's mask has that sharp black shading, but the rest of the figure just looks flat...

 

And here are some more general cover comments. Photo covers can be quite effective: the classic cover to Submariner 7 for example: Namor looks amazing as John Buscema depicts him rising above the streets. On the other hand, this Spider-Man cover (from ASM 262) just looks a bit cheesy to me. Perhaps it's the combination of hand-rendered art and photography that works for me; the photo alone just lacks punch.

 

 Finally, this cover for Justice League of America 23 (2006 series) exemplifies one of my pet artistic peeves. Specifically, it has no sense of design. It's an over-rendered mess. Fine linework is great, but not when it gets totally lost in Too Much Detail. Everything in this cover mushes together visually, with the exception of the logo and Wonder Woman. And really, I don't mean to be critical, but it is a problem way too common with comic cover art in the modern era. This cover could have been more effective if, say, they took out half the characters and blacked out the background. Then you could actually make out individual figures and actions. It reminds me of my first year drawing class in college: what you leave out is as important as what you put in. 

Okay, I've pontificated enough. I'll turn the mike over to Marti; let's see what he's got for us...
 

Martinex1: Thanks for getting us started Red!  There are a number of comics that rub me the wrong way.  And it is not necessarily because the art is bad, some of my selections will actually be from some of my favorite artists who are definitely superstars.

Martinex1: My first choice in this rather dubious post is for Avengers #228.  Al Milgrom pencilled this piece.  I think the cover would have been one-thousand times better if he actually had Hank Pym in costume.  It is the "Trial of Yellowjacket " after all, and the cover can be symbolic if he doesn't wear his fighting togs in the story itself.  That choice really diminished the cover.  On top of it, I have never liked that Hank is very indistinguishable from Steve Rogers, Clint Barton, and Donald Blake when out of costume (which is probably why those characters are fully suited up in the background).  I believe this should have been corrected by editorial.  This cover just was not good enough.

Martinex1: I really admire John Byrne's art.  He is definitely one of my favorite artists of all time.   I know some people don't like his style, but I have always found him to be an enjoyable and clear storyteller.  I also think that many of his covers are iconic - just take a look at Uncanny X-Men #141 or almost his entire run of Fantastic Four covers.  It is a bucket list type dream to own original cover art from Byrne.  But I would not want to own one of these.  This particular FF cover does nothing for me.  I have commented before that I am really turned off by "civilian" covers when I am looking for super-heroes. It is of course rendered quite well, but thematically it does nothing for me.   This Alpha Flight cover is a miss for me also.  I think the extreme close-up works against the layout - it wants to be "in your face" but it comes across as strange and unshapely.  If he had pulled back just a bit, it may have been more effective.  Having said that though, it may not be the pencil art at all but rather the color that is off-putting.  The pink header does not work well at all against Sasquatch's orange fur and it actually seems to cut off the top of his head.  I am not sure if the whole thing would have looked better if the entire panel was orange.

Martinex1: George Perez is another favorite of mine.  But I have never liked covers that put the characters in a distant shot.  Covers should be bold in my mind; the characters should be larger than life. Something about the size of the characters diminishes the cover for me.  It would have been a perfectly fine internal panel, but for the "marketing" of a story, I thought this was a miss.  This cover is actually famous in a sense as it is well-known that the graffiti on the train car includes the names of many comic creators and co-workers from Marvel.  It is a novelty in a way, but I felt that the touching tribute to his peers actually minimized the action because he needed to pull back to use the space on the train car.   I am torn on this one, but it does not work for me and back in the day I delayed buying this issue from the spinner rack for a long time.

Martinex1: Bob Layton is just fantastic and he had an iconic run on Iron Man along with writer David Michelinie.  I like his work even more now as I have recently been looking back at his key run on the book. Layton also shares some of his work on Twitter, and I always check it our because it is fantastic.  This cover however always seemed rushed because of the strangely proportioned characters.  I know it is supposed to be a forced perspective to indicate the characters "coming at you," but it is just too much.   Wolverine's lower leg is much too large and Spider-Man looks fat.  It always strikes me as weird, like a fun house mirror version of the characters.  I don't like it.

Martinex1: Metal embossed covers never did anything for me.  I found it very hard to see the art.   The Avengers had an intermittent series of this type of cover during the Gatherers story arc.  I preferred the second print  or newsstand versions so that I could actually see the art.  Steve Epting and Tom Palmer were a great team, but I could not even distinguish the characters in the embossed version; the art was just lost.

Martinex1: Archie Comics and Harvey Comics are spectacular and we don't discuss them enough here. And I know you are going to say, "What?  How can you criticize this classic art?"  And I would respond that it is not at all the art that bothers me about these covers.  My beef with these publishers though is that I can never recall what is inside a particular issue because the cover does not tie to the stories.  There are old Archie tales that I remember so fondly.  A beloved cousin gave me a ton of Archie issues when I was little, and after losing them decades ago to childhood wear and tear I wanted to recreate the collection.  It is impossible  For the life of me, I cannot recall a single issue cover to try to source the comics.  I have absolutely no point of reference.  That was never true for super-hero tales back in the Bronze Age.

Martinex1: On the other hand, more modern comics have embraced the poses and poster shots for covers and I hate it.  Take a look at the comics below.  They may indicate what heroes are in the issue (maybe) but there is absolutely nothing about these covers that indicates anything about the story inside.  I really dislike that immensely.  In the future, any collectors will have the same concern with Marvel that I have with Archies and Harveys.  The embracing of these stock shots is misguided I think.

Redartz:  Marti, I so agree with your thoughts about those 'poster shot' covers. Once in awhile is fine, but almost every issue? No, give us some reference to the interior contents to entice us to buy. But hey, it's time for you all to chime in. What do you think about these covers we've chosen, and what covers can you think of that left you cold?

Chew the Fat: Comic Books as the Source Material!

Note: In the following discussion, there may be some slight SPOILERS to the recent superhero movies, particularly Avengers:Infinity War.  We will try to steer clear of any major revelations, but if you are sensitive to any "spoilery" activity or images please tread cautiously.   This topic is not about the movie plots specifically but about the influences from comic books on specific shots or scenes in the movies.

Martinex1: As I've watched recent Marvel movies including Thor: Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Avengers: Infinity War, I have noticed scenes or images that had to be influenced from comics from the Silver and Bronze ages.  Surely there have always been key plot points that follow the tracks of the comics; even lesser movies like The Fantastic Four have had to rely on the source material to tell the story.   Today I am talking about something perhaps more subtle in the movies - the brief instances that cause a bit of deja vu.  A character says or acts in a way that really reflects his comic book personality, or a glimpse of a setting seems to have jumped off of a comic panel, or a bit of action could have come from a comic cover - these are the things I am referring to.  

Sometimes the thought that pops into my head is not even related to the specific series that the movie is based on.  Why would the Avengers remind me of an obscure DC issue?  Or why would Thor seem like another character entirely?  Today let's explore and discuss the influence of comics in general as a source to the movies.

I started thinking about this a few days ago when I posted on our Twitter account that often (specifically in Thor: Ragnarok) Thor seemed more like Hercules from the comic books.  His joy of life and humor and eagerness to jump into battle seemed more like Herc than the sometimes thoughtful and brooding Thor from the comics. Even when dealing with tragedy, the Thor of the movies is less full of vengeance and more accepting and optimistic about the future.  Also some comic images came to my mind.  Thor has partaken in his share of beer and mead, but Hercules always seemed more the reveler.  And a very brief glimpse of Thor on Grandmaster's homeworld reminded me of the cover of Bob Layton's Hercules comic.  Take a look...

 

Now I admit that can be total coincidence, but it goes to show how influential comics can be on the cinematic art or at the very least how pervasive they can be to my interpretation of the film.

In Infinity War, Captain America's brief confrontation of Thanos had to be based on the scenes from the Jim Starlin and Ron Lim comics.  Even though Cap was not in his classic togs with his iconic shield and there was little or no dialog during the fight, there was just that glimmer of idealism and strength that Cap exudes while confronting unbeatable odds.  The directors captured that courage and strength of conviction well.

 Thematically, that is pretty on the nose.  But for something a little more obscure take a look at the final images from Thor: Ragnarok.  The Asgardians evacuate in a giant ship only to be dwarfed by something much larger and ominous.  Here is a look at that parting shot.

The escape craft is in the foreground and behind it is a monstrosity that practically blocks out the stars.  Does that seem familiar to you?   Well it did to me!  It reminded me specifically of Avengers Volume 1 Issue # 167, in which the S.H.I.E.L.D Helicarrier and Nick Fury call the Avengers for help.  The team views the Hellicarrier on their video monitor but there seems to be no sky behind the ship; they pan out to reveal the gigantic ship Drydock which is occupied by the Guardians of the Galaxy.  The comic does not have Asgardians or Thanos in it, but I have to believe the below George Perez image was referenced.

My final example is rather random in that it has no story connection to the Infinity War, the Avengers, the Black Order or any specifics of the movie story,  But when I saw the giant alien wheels unleashed on the warriors and team in Wakanda during the climactic battle, I immediately thought of the Blackhawk comic and the frequent appearances of the Warwheel.

Boy, that crazy thing sure made a lot of appearances (and even in re-crafted covers).  It may have no connection whatsoever to the movie, but it was the first thing that popped into my head when seeing the scene on the silver screen.

So that type of connection is what I would like us to chat about today.  Let's Chew the Fat! What do you think about my examples, and what other instances in recent films had you excited because of their reference and recognizable nature?  Cheers!

This & That: Hulk Annual 7!



Hulk Annual 7; 1978

Redartz:  Hello, hulkophiles! For today's installment of "HULK WEEK," we will look at a great Hulk story from 1978. Appropriately, for a BIG character like ol' Greenskin, we feature a King-Size Annual: Hulk Annual 7!  This Bronze Age behemoth was brought to you by writer Roger Stern, penciller/co-plotter John Byrne, and inker Bob Layton. Now that's a top-notch combo.

Brief note for art lovers; pardon my scans- it was challenging to get an even scan with the flat-bound spine of this book; but I think you'll get the gist of things!

Martinex1:  The scans look great to me.   What a stellar creative team this book has!  I've always liked when Roger Stern and John Byrne team up.   This was obviously before their Captain America and Marvel: The Lost Generation runs, but you can definitely see the benefits of their partnership in this classic annual.


Redartz: Our story, in a Hulk-sized nutshell: 

 

It all starts with Warren Worthington III (Angel) watching a news story about the Hulk (and it looks like he's watching Walter Cronkite). The Hulk has been staying at Gamma Base with Doc Samson, where the attempt is underway to cure Bruce Banner from his verdant alter-ego. Angel is shortly the recipient of a visitor: his teammate Bobby Drake, the Iceman (with his own date along for the trip). 

Martinex1: This book was on the sale rack in May of 1978.  The Champions had finished up their run about seven months prior.   It was good to see Byrne bringing back Warren and Bobby for this; he wasn't using them in X-Men at the time.  And I always thought he drew a nice Angel; he had a good feel for the placement and handling of the wings.   That sure is a huge tube television Warren owns. 





Redartz: As the group relaxes poolside, another visitor shows up: a buckskin clad stranger, who soon is revealed as the Master Mold Sentinel! The Sentinel defeats Iceman and pursues Angel, who (seeking assistance) recalls that Gamma Base isn't far away. He lures the Sentinel there, where the arrival causes a ruckus awakening the Hulk. 

Martinex1:  I am not that familiar with the colorist for this issue, Janice Cohen.   But I think she did a tremendous job.  I really like the mood she creates.  I am not sure how much John Byrne had a hand in the direction, but the shadowy panels on the earlier splash page and here with Master Mold in the raincoat and hat stick with me.   In regards to the story, I had no idea that Master Mold could transform or change sizes until I read this. 




Redartz: You're right, Janice does the art proud with her colors here. And I wondered about the size-change thing too- and wondered where he got the idea for a buckskin disguise...
Battle ensues, and the Sentinel flies off with Angel and Iceman, and the Hulk hanging along. To where, you ask? To a satellite in orbit; a big one sized for a Sentinel.  





As even Hulk can't breath in space, he passes out, and is imprisoned along with Warren and Bobby in the Sentinel's satellite lab. Of course, no tube can hold the Hulk, so shortly all are freed, battle again rages. The 'Master Mold' Sentinel reveals himself to be the downloaded  remnant of Steven Lang, who had supposedly been blown up after facing the X-Men. But  Hulk doesn't need details, he just wants to deal with 'the robot', and literally rips the Sentinel apart. 

Martinex1:   The tubes they were trapped in reminded me of the same glass prisons many mutants were kept in back when the Sentinels were guided by Larry Trask in Neal Adam's X-Men run.   I like that continuity as it seems logical that the Sentinel's tools would be consistent.

In the panel where the Hulk stands amongst the wreckage of the robot, does ol' Greenskin seem too small to you?   It is an amazing shot with a lot of impact but I did not think Master Mold was that big.

 





Redartz: Good point about the size! In the earlier panel with the unconscious Hulk grasping the Sentinel's foot while hurtling through space, the size comparison seems similar to the panel you mention. That must have been one mighty big satellite...
 Meanwhile, it turns out the Sentinel had activated the self-destruct (every satellite has one, of course). Angel and Iceman try in vain to convince Hulk to 'abandon ship'; he knocks them back to earth. Upon emerging from the escape capsule, they are met by the Hulk: not blown to bits, he just fell to earth with them!


I wasn't familiar with the specifics of the Hulk's storyline at this point in time, so the situation at Gamma Base was new to me. No problem here, though, Roger Stern and co-plotter John Byrne put together a fine, self-contained story that explains all you need to know (while including many references to events in other books). I did recognize Doc Samson, General Ross and Jim Wilson from some previous Hulky reading, and the Warren's reference to the Champions plane was a nice nod to that book. Stern really gets the details right, a trait he showed emphatically later with Spider-Man and the Avengers. 

Martinex1:  Ha! Yes, it has really become a sci-fi trope to have some kind of mechanism to cause the entire self-destruction of a ship.   From Alien to Star Wars to the Hulk annual, there is always something that makes everything go "Boom!" if things get out of hand.  

It is interesting you mention that you weren't following Hulk at the time; I would only pick up issues of this era intermittently.    The one thing about the Hulk though is that I always felt I knew his character, so jumping in wasn't strenuous.  Stern and Byrne handle him well here.


Redartz: The reveal of and battle with the Sentinel were well done. The clever use of the frozen swimming pool was cool (sorry, couldn't resist), and Warren's desperate flight to Gamma Base was both appropriate and dramatic. The Hulk fight was unique, as well; I loved the scene with ol' Greenskin gettting doused. His expression says everything.

Regarding the Hulk, I was impressed with the depiction of his mental capabilities. It went far beyond the old "Hulk smash." His argument with Samson evidenced that the Hulk was putting that head to some use, and showed he didn't appreciate the low esteem others had for that head. Seeing a bit more personality in Hulk really made him more engaging, less 1-dimensional. Of course, this portrayal may have been the prevailing approach then, I don't know as I wasn't following it at the time. HB, I trust you will set me straight.

Martinex1:  It always seemed to me that the Hulk had a range of emotions and relative intelligence based on his experiences, and I thought this fit into his wheelhouse.   Though like you said the prevailing instinct is to assume Hulk is more mindless than this.   When I read these older stories, I like how the Hulk is almost portrayed as a bad guy, powerful and dangerous, but he just happens to be on the side of the angels.   I like imagining how he'd take down other powerhouses if they crossed him wrong.  He is unpredictable but astonishingly fun to root for. 


Redartz: The artwork? Absolutely gorgeous. Those Rocky Mountain landscapes are magnificent. Angel's wings never looked more three-dimensional. The outer space vistas- breathtaking. Byrne in this era never disappoints, and this time he Hulkin' nails it! And those Layton inks- not commonly seen on Byrne, but what a combo! A very striking, effective combination of styles. Layton's tight inks just add a luster to Byrne's fine pencils. A joy to look this book over. 

Martinex1: I too really like the art here.   John Byrne, infamously has remarked on Bob Layton's inks - suffice it to say that Byrne did not like them at all.   I, like you Redartz, really like the combination.  On occasion, I agree with Byrne that Layton over-inks the faces and mouths.   I can see that, particularly when compared to Terry Austin's work, and if it is brought to my attention I may lean Byrne's way slightly on that.   But I do however like Layton's level of detail, use of shadow, and minor lines and overall think he is a plus to Byrne's pencils.

Since we have talked about the rest of the creative team, I'd also like to point out the lettering work by James Novak.   Again, I am not sure if it was all at his discretion (or if Byrne had drawn them into the panels) but there were a number of sound effects used to great impact.   Sometimes the sounds were melded into the background of the action  (as in the panels above when the Hulk takes down Master Mold) and sometimes they seemed to reverberate.  


Redartz: I found the ending slightly predictable but fun. We knew Hulk wasn't going to be obliterated in space, but seeing the reactions of Warren and Bobby as Hulk climbed out of the water was great.
All told, an fine annual, a solid enjoyable story that kept my interest throughout. Excellent artwork, and a nice protrayal of the Hulk. Time well spent. 

Martinex1:  I agree completely.   Sure it ends rather succinctly, but it is a self-contained annual and I feel it is better than most.  I am glad I read this again; it wasn't a Marvel universe impacting story but it was really entertaining one-off with a great amount of energy and top notch fight scenes.

The Good:  Redartz:  Again, the artwork. I'm still glassy eyed from admiring it.  Martinex1:  I am with you there; top talent at the peak of their enjoyment and creativity.  There were also some moments of humor like when Hulk bopped Doc Samson on the head; I like that blend of drama, action, and smiles.

The Bad: Redartz: Nothing really, the only minor complaint: it sort of seemed like an Angel/Iceman story guest starring the Hulk. Perhaps a bit more face time for the Big Guy would have made this book even better. But a very small complaint. Martinex1:  That is a great point, and I thought the two X-Men were good straight men for the Hulk's savagery.   The bad for me is that this creative team didn't do more together.

The Ugly: Redartz: Hulk's disembowelment of the Sentinel. Glad he was machine and not flesh and blood. Yuck. Martinex1:  Yes indeed!  No ugly here - just really glad you suggested this story.   Cheers!

When the creative team is clicking; even the most basic plot points seem grand!