Panel Discussion: Things I Never Knew; Things We Never Saw!

Martinex1: Good day all!  Sometimes when I am researching the details of a topic or searching for tidbits or art samples for this blog, I stumble across some comic book history, graphics, and stories that I previously knew nothing about.  Even after more than 40 years of collecting comics (and just about as many reading about the inner workings of the industry, the artists, the publishers and all the rest), I still learn new things about the field all the time.

Today I'd like to share three examples from the history of Marvel Comics that until recently I knew nothing about.  I suspect some of our regular commentators and lurkers may contend that this is old hat and some may think we are out of touch.  That is okay, because I found these particular points fascinating.  So I hope some of you do also.

HISTORICAL MYSTERY #1:  Did you know that Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith pitched a new team to Marvel in the late 60s that would have consisted of Quicksilver, Red Raven, and Rick Jones?

I had no idea.  I happened to see an internet inquiry about Quicksilver being considered for a team other than the Avengers, and I found my way to Comic Book Artist, Collection Volume 1 (which includes a CBA issue from the Summer of 1998).  In that periodical, as part of an in-depth interview with Barry Windsor-Smith they reference the proposed book and even include the first few BWS' drawn pages.   Take a look below.

Alter Ego #18 (July 2013) also references the book that never materialized.  Check out this drawing of the Grim Reaper, who was destined to be the team's nemesis, as drawn by Barry Windsor-Smith.  The drawing and caption below are from that Alter Ego issue.

Not much else seems to be recorded about the proposal, but if any of our faithful readers have any insight please share it with us.  What I have been able to glean is that around 1969, Thomas and Windsor-Smith proposed the odd team that would possibly be named either the Outcasts or the Invaders (a name which Roy Thomas eventually used in 1975).

It is interesting to note that on newsstands in March of 1968 was X-Men #44 starring none-other than Red Raven battling the Angel; the story was written by Roy Thomas.  That very same month another Thomas penned tale, Avengers #52, was published and that story introduced the Grim Reaper.   The following month, Thomas' X-Men #45 featured Quicksilver.  And a few months later, the full story of Bucky's life and death and Rick Jones' desire to be like the WWII hero was detailed in Avengers #56.  

So to say that these characters were on Roy Thomas' mind around the key time would be an understatement.  There seemed to be a juxtaposition of key elements to creatively form such a gathering.  Was Thomas looking at a WWII angle for the book?  Hard to say, but he had a golden age hero in Red Raven and a modern version of Bucky with Rick Jones.  There was also supposition that he would bring the Whizzer into the story, but I have no hard data to support that. Though it may fit, as later Thomas would present the Whizzer as Pietro's father (prior to the Magneto revelation).   It is fun to speculate about a book that wasn't; I sure would have liked to have seen what was intended.

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CULTURAL COMIC MYSTERY #2: Did you know that John Byrne drew extra pages for a memorable Marvel Team-Up so that it would fit the UK page plan?

John Byrne is one of my favorite Bronze Age artists and I pay close attention to his work from his heyday in the late 70s.  So it caught my attention when I saw art that I had never seen before pinned to one of my favorite stories.

I recently acquired two Captain Britain hardcover collections, Birth of a Legend and Siege of Camelot. The books collect the early UK Captain Britain stories, prior to Alan Moore's work and the change from his original costume.  A side note:  I am enjoying these UK stories immensely and will have to comment on them in a future Panel Discussion, as there is enough top-notch Bronze Age-iness from Claremont and Trimpe to fill a whole column.

However, in the latter volume, there is also reprinted material of the classic Spider-Man and Captain Britain Marvel Team-Up #65 and #66.  I originally bought these chapters back in 1977; they were among the first 10 comics I ever purchased so I read them cover-to-cover numerous times.  Aside from becoming a Captain Britain fan, I nearly memorized the books.

And that is why I was so stunned and thrilled to see the following pages notated as additions to the originals in the UK version.  Comics, because they were published weekly in the UK, would split our U.S. adventures into chapters to fit the smaller page count of the weekly offerings.  However, sometimes the cuts didn't fall in a perfect position, so on occasion new splash pages were added to enhance the rerun tale.  Sometimes those pages went un-credited and were handled by UK artists; but in this case John Byrne himself added the splash pages.  Check them out below.  From Captain B chasing Spidey from their apartment window in the first, to the British hero recounting his origin in the second.  Pretty cool!  Whoever has the originals is one lucky cat.

MARVEL HERO'S MYTHIC MISS #3:  I can understand a book that was pitched and never launched, but how about a hero that was advertised as appearing in the very next issue, but instead disappeared into the ether?

Starhawk is known far and wide as a member of the original Guardians of the Galaxy.  Sylvester Stallone even portrayed Stakar in the recent GotG second movie. But did you know there was another Starhawk advertised long before the space faring hero made his debut in The Defenders #26.

No, this other Starhawk appeared in a Marvel House ad promising for the character to appear in the very next issue of Marvel Super-Heroes.  Alas, he never does appear.  And despite some fantastic art from Dan Adkins, the story never saw print in a "normal" format.

Our friend and fellow blogger, Rip Jagger, wrote eloquently about this character back in 2009.  And Rip definitely fills in the gaps and brings the story full circle.  So check out this link to Rip's post and then come back to sum up the day.  http://ripjaggerdojo.blogspot.com/2009/12/coming-of-starhawk.html   I appreciate the art of  Dan Adkins so much that I do share a few of his pages here for your perusal. Rip has even more at his site.

  

I like the look of this book.  It seems to touch on the cosmic element blending a bit of the feel of the Silver Surfer and Captain Marvel. I like Adkins' layouts and inks.  It is astounding to me that this book was written, pencilled, inked, lettered and advertised but it would not see print until much later in a less than standard format.

The modern Starhawk is a character" that fascinates me, and I wonder if there is any remnant of his namesake concept within. I guess only Roy Thomas knows if the "one who knows" comes at all from the "one who wasn't."

Well, I hope you enjoyed our brief foray into the unknown and forgotten.   Please share your thoughts and musings.  If you can expand on any of the these three subjects today, please pipe in.  Or if you know of any other created but shelved characters - clue us in.

Cheers!

Rank And File: Seeing Red and Enjoying It!

Martinex1: I am partial to a particular color being used for comic character costumes - and that is the color RED!  For some reason if the hero's garb is red, it just jumps out and grabs me.  Without knowing anything about the character, the story, the writing, or even the overall art - a character in a predominantly red uniform captures my eye and my attention.   We talk about covers that made us buy books, well I am here to say that red characters have captured my dollars and cents. 


Today we will rank our top five red-clothed characters.  Plus (if you care to participate) we will list our three worst examples.  This is obviously a purely visceral exercise, so if you are partial to blue, yellow, green,  or purple costumes, feel free to tell us so.


I am sure there are many characters I missed in the selections below (and I purposefully left out Spidey but you can include him if you like), so please make your own additions to the lists if you see fit.   Enjoy the pictures and scroll down for my choices in today's Rank and File!

 

How could we not start with the prime warriors in red - DC's speedster Flash and Marvel's adventurer Daredevil (although Matt Murdock premiered in yellow)?

 Likewise Falcon debuted in green, but quickly changed color schemes.  While Plaz has always been classic in red.

Red Raven has been around since the Golden Age; more recent to the ranks is Deadpool; his costume caught my eye in The New Mutants.

Magneto won't be on my favorite list because in my mind the purple always dominated (I suspect because of the cape).  And just say "no" to Red Hulk!

And then there is the Red Guardian (or Red Guardians)!  I always liked the costume, particularly when the female Red Guardian appeared in the Defenders.

They were of Russian origin, and then later with Alpha Flight there was Guardian and Vindicator who were Canadians.

Early silver age female characters also used the color well; Scarlet Witch of course embraced the shade.  While Medusa prefers purple, her locks definitely define her look.

DC also had Deadman and Adam Strange (both appearing in Strange Adventures) garbed in red.  They remain two of my favorite finds when I first went searching through back issue bins.



 

Captain Marvel - one of the first great super-heroes to jump into the red long johns.  Who can forget the Big Red Cheese?

Although the book was not at the top of the charts, the Human Fly costume is one of my favorite designs from the Bronze Age.  It really jumped off of the covers.

The Wasp changed her costume a lot, but this example from 1979 is eye catching.   Red Wolf  had "red" in his name but it was in a stereotypical way; it would be good to see him return in a modern guise.

 

Whether Jim Hammond or Johnny Storm, the Human Torch always looked good in red.  Johnny adopted the costume during a mid-Bronze Age run in Fantastic Four, and Hammond returned to it in West Coast Avengers. 


And then there are the female powerhouses from the house of ideas and the distinguished competition: Thundra and Wonder Girl

 I much prefer Captain Britain's original fighting togs to his later versions.   When he first met Spider-Man in Marvel Team-Up #65, I had no idea who he was but it did not stop me for an instant from buying the mag.  I think it was his costume that drew me in.

Was Giant Man more noticeable in his red costume?  In The Avengers, he changed rather quickly to his blue and yellow guise as Goliath, but I always look for the red costume and I was glad to see him wearing it in Avengers Academy.  I think it harkens back to his Ant-Man days well.

Ruby Thursday was such an odd character, but who amongst us can forget that red orb for a head?   It was strange and scary and only something that could happen in comics.  I always liked Ruby's self-confidence despite her self-inflicted  odd predicament.  I wonder if we will ever see her in the cinema.

Red Ronin was never much of a character, just a robot shell.  But those few issues of Avengers (issues #197 through #199) were entertaining.

Robin of course had his bright red tunic.  Some of our commenters pointed out that the bright color is counter-intuitive particularly in light of his partner's demeanor and approach to crime fighting.  I think it is bold.  And the character doubles down with his Red Robin persona.  In the above cover, the Avengers highlight a few of their red costumed heroes: the Falcon, the Wasp, Scarlet Witch, and even Simon Williams put on a red safari jacket as Wonder Man.

 The Red Skull is one of the oldest villains in Marvel's sandbox,  I am not a fan.

 And my final examples include the wondrous Spider-Woman and the android Red Tornado.

So now it is time to share my top five red-costumed characters; without further ado:

1) Deadman: his look is classic particularly how it contrasts the white ghostly skin and the blood red costume.  It doesn't hurt that Neal Adams rendered him so well.

2) Daredevil: In a box containing dozens of random comics from a cousin, I can recall gravitating to the bright red yet mysterious Daredevil.  With the horns of his namesake and the slight DD on his chest, the costume is a winner.

3) Captain Britain: I like the mask.  I like the iconic complexity.   I like the contrast.   I wish they never changed it. 

4) Human Torch: Flame on or flame off, I always liked the Torch's appearances, but when Johnny Storm decided to wear red I thought it was a cool homage to the WWII version and the stamp of individualism that Johnny needed.

5) Adam Strange:  I actually still know very little about this character beyond the basics, but every time I see his spacefaring suit I have to flip through the book.

And because I get to decide the rules, here is one outlier and honorable mention that I think deserves attention:

6*) Human Fly:  For a book that had so little going for it (a licensed property mimicking the exploits of real life stuntman with some shaky art) the design is spectacular.  Maybe it is nostalgic but I like everything about it, from the crosshairs across the full face mask to the rocket on the belt buckle.

And the worst of all of the "red" related characters (in no particular order):

A) Red Wolf:  I know he should not be on this list as his color scheme is not red, but Marvel has a lot of potential in this Native American character and I would like to see him return, but revamp him entirely and give him some powers and attributes that are not simplistic caricatures.  For one thing, give him a red costume.

B) Red Hulk: I may not have minded the character if it wasn't a retread of so many other Hulk characters from the Abomination to Doc Samson to the "Rick" Hulk.  Another gamma irradiated behemoth.  This time it is Thunderbolt Ross and he is red!  Big deal.

C) Red Skull:  It is time to put this creep to bed.  I know he is Captain America's nemesis, but this character needs to be thrown in a maximum security prison and never seen again simply because he is a Nazi.   His motivations are rooted in things too horrifically real.  I don't want to read about him.  I definitely cannot empathize with him.  And I've had enough of him.  Capture him and charge him with war crimes and move on. 

On that rather serious note, let's hear what you have to say.  Who are your favorite characters that wear red and why?  Rank them for us and let's compare notes.   If you prefer a different color let us know that too.  Take the conversation where you see fit and let's discuss all aspects of costuming today.  We are seeing red at BitBA; how about you?