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Have fun today! Cheers!
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21 comments:
La La Land has been in the news so discuss musicals. Do you love them, hate them or just feel indifferent ? Do you have a particular favorite song from a musical ? Are jukebox musicals just lazy ? And what counts as a musical - were Saturday Night Fever and Cabaret musicals or just films with added songs ? Is Rudolf The Red Nosed Reindeer a musical or the South Park movie ? Today BITBA is alive with the sound of music so discuss anything and everything about musicals !
Being a musician, I am torn: I certainly love music, love movies, love movies with music, but pretty much can't stand musicals like LaLaLand.
Growing up in the Bronze Age we had some real music movie touchstones: SNF, Grease, Urban Cowboy, even that horrid Sgt Pepper disaster.
South Park is the greatest homage/sendup of musicals ever: you can identify the Broadway shows they are mocking/nodding their head to.
I particularly like the movies Once, Begin Again and Sing Street, all by Irish Director John Carney. They are less about "performance" musicals than focusing on the creative process of writing tunes. Highly recommend them all.
Yoyo
To answer some of my own questions - I'm not really a musical fan but I wouldn't turn off the TV either if one came on. I've always liked The Sound Of Music even though it's sugary sweet and absolutely nothing like the real story of the Von Trapps - apparently Maria was rather pushy and unpleasant and they left Austria by train not by escaping over the Alps ! For me a "proper" musical is one where songs replace speech at certain times so Saturday Night Fever and Cabaret are not musicals in the true sense - in fact Cabaret has been called "the musical for people who hate musicals". And South Park was a sort-of spoof of a musical. Jukebox musicals ARE just lazy in my opinion - a total lack of originality and an easy way to make lots of money. There are musicals I've never seen like South Pacific and West Side Story but I know some of their songs like "Happy Talk" and "Some Enchanted Evening". And I never seen Wicked but I love that song "Populuuur".
Ooo-- falling plumb into one of my wheelhouses w/ that one, Colin--
Cabaret, DEFINITELY a musical. If anything, the movie suffers IMO because it cuts too many of the songs that are intrinsic to the stage version. But yeah, it's a musical. SAT NIGHT FEVER-- a movie with a driving musical element, but not a musical--- especially since the characters themselves don't do any of the singing.
Myself, I almost always prefer the stage version of a traditional/conventional musical over the screen adaptation-- although there have certainly been some fine ones produced on film: OKLAHOMA, MUSIC MAN, WEST SIDE STORY, MY FAIR LADY, SOUND OF MUSIC, KING AND I-- quite a few, actually. The most successful, to me, are the ones that don't try to "improve" upon the stage version by a) cutting beloved songs, b) cutting scenes/characters/subplots c) adding new songs/scenes/characters that the producers think viewers will "really" want to see.
In recent years, with Hollywood making efforts to re-discover the film musical, my biggest, BIGGEST issue is the casting of big stars with serviceable, but unremarkable, singing voices (or, in fact, terribly weak voices). Johnny Depp in SWEENEY TODD just killed me (no pun intended). And Russel Crowe-- a tremendous actor-- but the song "Stars" in LES MIS is an iconic and treasured piece that beautifully showcases the often-overlooked rich glory of a baritone voice. It was hard not to dash out of the theater when we came to it in the film. Same with Marlon Brando in GUYS & DOLLS. When the final, printed take of a duet has your leading man clearly unable to hold his own part of the harmony- and you can hear his tone drift off- you (the producer) are no longer serving the needs of the piece itself. . .
(Ha-! I a man of STRONG opinion in this realm. . . )
HB
Great, timely topic Colin! A good musical is a joy to watch and to hear. As to defining a musical? For me it is a show in which cast members perform most of the musical content. So "Rudolf" would classify as a musical, while "Saturday Night Fever" (the music was integral to the film, but was pre-recorded) would not. What say you all?
As for favorite musicals, "Grease" is one, "Singing in the Rain", and "Fiddler on the Roof" as well.
I also love a spoof musical. For the last few years at Christmastime BBC radio has broadcast a '15 Minute Musical' sending up a topical theme. Last Christmas there were two - a Disney parody called "Lady And The Trump" and a spoof of Cabaret called "Cabarexit" which climaxed with "Tomorrow Belongs To May" reflecting the woeful state of current British politics and the feeble opposition to Brexit.
HB, I was thinking of you when I suggested this topic ! And I definitely hate this recent move to actors doing their own singing. They ruin the songs with their awful singing. Bring back the likes of Marnie Nixon to do the singing and let the actors lip-synch !
The wife, the kids, and I still really enjoy Oliver and Sound of Music. They were musicals.
So 4 musicals won Best Picture in the 196os, the same time frame silly / odd tv shows like I Dream of Jeannie, Green Acres, etc. were produced . The same time frame Stan and Jack created Marvel, Then musicals, tv, and Marvel stopped with that explosion of creativity... Coincidence? Correlation? Causality? Off to work...
*sniff*
Marni Nixon. . .
. . . excuse me, just the mention of her name chokes me up. . .
The patron SAINT of unselfish supporting performers.
Mind you, lip-synching tends to make me rather nuts as well-- even when performers are synching to their own vocal track. One of the better aspects of LES MIS (film) was that, by god, they went to extraordinary lengths to record the vocal performances live as much as they could, and I think that paid a huge dividend. The performance is grounded and integrated and invested. I am HUGELY on the bus for Anne Hathaway's deserved Oscar for her performance in that film. And. . . she has the stage-seasoned voice to give it full life. There's just some element of subtle confidence-- kind of indefinable-- that's detectable in a singing actor who has at some point in their (early?) career faced the challenge of singing in front of a crowd in a hall or theater or auditorium without benefit of amplification, and knowing that their voice alone is gonna have to carry the day. It makes a change in that actor's relationship with their voice, y'know?
HB
I generally don't care for them, I'm not a fan of "Broadway-style" singing. There are a few that I like, On The Town, West Side Story, The King And I, Showboat. I like Gilbert and Sullivan I have a theory that Bob Fosse knew how to make musicals for people who didn't like musicals, because I generally enjoy his stageshows and films. But even when I like a musical, I find it has one song to many for my liking.
My wife loves them, so she generally watches/listens to musicals when I'm not home.
Prior to publishing my last comment, I meant to type I like Gilbert and Sullivan okay, but I don't know if they "count" as musicals or operettas." But they're certainly a major influence on the American musical, for better or worse.
Little Shop of Horrors!!! Levi Stubs, Steve Martin's I'm a dentist dity, Bill Murray's brief but wonderful performance, so much goodness
I'm not a huge fan of musicals, and I haven't seen a lot, but there are a few I like. Grease had cool songs, West Side Story had a good storyline (thanks to Shakespeare, I guess), and Bye-Bye Birdie had Ann-Margret ... always a plus for me. I agree with Luther Manning on Little Shop of Horrors ... it had cool songs AND a good story.
Speaking of Ann-Margret, would Elvis's movies count as musicals? I have a soft spot for those; I recognize that a lot of them are utter crap, but the good ones (Viva Las Vegas, Loving You, Kissin Cousins, King Creole) are pretty cool, and almost every movie has at least one good song.
Mike Wilson- Good call on the Elvis films, and on Ann Margaret (both in Viva Las Vegas, bonus points). Which made me think: I went through a phase watching the old "beach party" movies with Frankie Avalon and Annette Funicello. Many are hard to sit through now (my wife loves 'em, though), but some were rather fun. And you had the likes of Leslie Gore and James Brown swinging along with the cast...
As much as I enjoy the performances in LITTLE SHOP (although Rick Moranis is just outta his vocal league against the inspiringly uninhibited Ellen Green), it's the perfect example of how Hollywood takes inappropriate liberties w/ stage musicals. They reversed the entire end for the film. The ending for the stage version is daaaaaaark. Audrey 2 eats everyone. It's nihilistic. As written, the plant becomes mobile and starts to threaten the audience as well. True horror movie-style. But-- that didn't test well (or neat & clean enough) w/ movie preview audiences. . . so they just tied it up all happy.
Ugh. Might as well have Tony wake up and say "it's just a flesh wound" at the end of WEST SIDE STORY. . .
HB
@Redartz: I've never seen any of the original Beach movies, though I've heard a couple of them are actually pretty good. For some reason, I did watch the "reunion" movie, Back to the Beach (1987), which starred Frankie and Annette, plus Lori Loughlin from Full House. It was ... OK, I guess.
I don't like musicals, but I think everybody should watch the film version of "Paint Your Wagon" once, if only to illustrate to them that we live in a random, uncaring universe where only chaos reigns.
M.P.
Hiya,
. . . but I think everybody should watch the film version of "Paint Your Wagon" once, if only to illustrate to them that we live in a random, uncaring universe where only chaos reigns. . .
Well, yeah. But that's what happens when Clint Eastwood starts talking to the trees.
In a strange way I've always thought that the musical was the most honest form of theatrical production because, outside of a Shakespearean soliloquy, a song was the clearest indicator of what a character was truly thinking.
Hey Humanbelly, I was lucky enough to catch Angela Lansbury and George Hearn in the touring company of Sweeney Todd. I heard thirty seconds of Depp's interpretation on NPR and resolved never to see the film. Even though I would have loved to catch Alan Rickman as Judge Turpin.
And let's add next to Marni Nixon's name on that great list of unsung (yes, I meant to do that) heroes that of Nikki van der Zyl who redubbed the dialogue of so many of the Bond girls including Ursula Andress.
Seeya,
pfgavigan
Did not know that about the earlier Bond girls, PFG! Golly-- (I actually haven't seen many of those films, tho, I must confess-)
Alan Rickman acquitted himself exceedingly well as Judge Turpin in the film-- really on-point for that role, and he can sing it quite ably. SWEENEY TODD often rises to the top of my "favorite musicals" list-- and the role itself is pretty much at the top of my dream-role bucket list. (Came in a close second to a brilliant fellow for a community theater production a couple of years ago--) Man, I do envy you getting to see that production! I'll still always kinda carry a torch for Len Cariou on the recording, though--
You've rather nailed a pretty good way to look at the function- or justification?- or purpose?- for the heightened reality that is musical theater. It's simply a suspension of disbelief, letting the music take over and fill out the dynamic of the moment. I love it, obviously. One of my dearest acting teachers in college HATED it-! Very much an in-the-moment realist, she would go on and on about how it just made no sense whatsoever that characters would start singing at each other when their emotions peaked. Heh. If one can surrender to singing, it's almost impossible to NOT have it become a pure expression of the emotion of the moment you're experiencing. Heck, that's true across the spectrum of all music, y'know?
HB
Not sure if this typically qualifies as a musical, but..
'A Hard Days Night'.
Since Elvis flicks were already mentioned.
Not in the traditional sense, DaveB, since the songs aren't directly part of the discourse or narrative-- serving to further plot/story. The songs are just. . . performances of their songs! Even in Elvis' films there were a goodly number of songs that were generated by what was happening in the moment (weren't there?). BUT-- I think a case could be made that HARD DAY'S NIGHT could be considered an early "Juke Box" Musical film. Of which Jersey Boys is, like, the ultimate expression of.
HB (veteran of a couple of jukebox musicals himself-- but not at his artistic best, believe me--)
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