Martinex1: Our friend Doug shared some thoughts recently about bands and musicians that outlived their welcome and perhaps jumped the shark. "Jumping the shark" of course refers to the point at which a concept was stretched to its limit, used some type of gimmick or changed tack to generate interest, and headed from that point in a negative trajectory. The origin of the term refers to the episode in the fifth season of Happy Days in which Fonzie (Henry Winkler) clad in a leather jacket and on water skis actually jumped a shark. That show steadily went down hill after that ludicrous episode culminating with cast changes and horrible spinoffs. It took seven more seasons for Happy Days to go off the air, but for many the show ended with that jump. For your enjoyment take a look at the seminal moment from September 20, 1977.
Here are some edited excerpts from Doug's comments from his email that explain his particular feelings regarding Starship and some of their songs from the 80s:
Doug: While fixing dinner this evening my wife and I were listening to a local radio station that plays 50s to 80s tunes. "Sara" by Starship came on and my ears began to bleed. (Regarding the singer Marty Thomas) - about the time he arrived is when that group jumped the shark. I can take "Jane" because it is a rocker. But when "We Built This City" comes along I want to puke. But the Jefferson Airplane and Jefferson Starship had a lot of really good music. So when did a given band suddenly begin to fail with you? And was it due to a personnel change or simply the passage of time or changing of the market?
Martinex1: Hilarious. I have the same reaction to the kind of overblown excessive manufactured enthusiasm of "We Built This City." Just so we can all enjoy the same ear-bleeding, vomit inducing track that actually reached #1 on the U.S. charts in November of 1985, here is the video promoting the song and album Knee Deep in the Hoopla.
For my "shark jump," I am going to head down a slightly different path. I was a big fan of The Who during my high school years. But when the album It's Hard arrived in 1982, it was obvious something had drastically changed - and not for the better. When did they jump the shark? I am not particularly sure exactly but it definitely happened. Keith Moon died shortly after the release of Who Are You so that had a definite impact on the band. I liked the following album Face Dances with Kenney Jones on drums, and with songs like "Another Tricky Day," "You Better, You Bet" and "Don't Let Go the Coat." it had not gone totally downhill - or had it?
Somewhere during that timeframe from 1978 with Who Are You until 1982's It's Hard, the band changed drastically. To exemplify that, take a look at videos from the two albums a mere four years apart.
Of course, Moon's attitude and energy helped the band, but beyond that it is obvious the participation went from a sense of enjoyment to the slog of a job. The second video even seems to highlight the business and behind the scenes "work." So they jumped the shark in the early 80s. The Who continued for decades without many new releases, but were never even a shadow of what they had been. The song "Eminence Front" even seems to indicate that its all for show now, and that may be the best song on the album. They seem tired and aged, and yet believe it or not the members were only about 38 years old around the time of that release (they suddenly seemed ancient to teenage me).
I also want to point out that the band members' solo albums were mostly in decline around the same time. Pete Townshend had a couple of average releases, but John Entwistle's Too Late the Hero from 1981 was a shocking misfire. The title song was a far cry musically from "Boris the Spider;" it was bland and lackluster. And the song "Talk Dirty" could have easily fit into Spinal Tap's lyrical repertoire.
I think there were a combination of catalysts to their slow demise, but when you see a band become more "corporate" it is a bad sign.
So those are some starting thoughts for our discussion today. I am sure you all have many examples to share of bands you love and bands you despise. When did U2 stop being rebellious rockers and become stadium showmen; did they jump the shark? When did Billy Joel stop being a piano man, or did he? When did the Stones lose their edge? Who retained their untouchable iconic status? Who quit before they jumped the shark? Who played until nobody listened and when did they jump the shark? Does fashion and style have anything to do with the perception? Were the 80s just bad? Did all the great 60s acts jump the shark in those days trying to convert to a new style?
Share your thoughts; we are curious what you have to say and what examples you will choose. Here is to hoping that BitBA hasn't jumped the shark yet! Cheers!
31 comments:
The one that leaps first to my mind is Stevie Wonder with, "I Just Called to Say I Love You," an uninspired dirge that drags on for hours without ever going anywhere, features one of the clumsiest key changes in history and, bafflingly, went to Number One in Britain then stayed there for what felt like an eternity. I was going to say I can't remember him doing anything since that I've liked but the truth is I can't remember him doing anything at all since then. I can't remember even hearing a new song from him, on the radio, since it came out, and that was over thirty years ago. I do recall music journalist and radio presenter Stuart Maconie once challenging his listeners to name anyone who's had a more instant and total collapse in form than Wonder did and no one managing to come up with anyone.
As for U2, for me, they managed a reverse shark jump. For the first ten years, I thought they were totally abysmal and then they did, "Achtung Baby," and it was like, "If they can make records like this, why were they making all that other stuff for ten years?" Sadly, they then went into a long slow decline until they descended into a pit of irrelevance from which there seems to be no escape.
I do feel that Supertramp had the most in-your-face shark jump in history with, "It's Raining Again." The moment it hit the line, "Come on, you little fighter. No need to get uptighter," you knew, at that instant, that their career was over. It was like a one line musical suicide note.
Great examples from Steve.
I read today's post over breakfast, and the first thing that hit me was the notion that the Beatles went in reverse. It seems we can make a correlation with some artists that once MTV arrived, so did blatant commercialism. Perhaps we see that with some acts, maybe like the Who, who "softened up" after some point. But the Beatles chose to eschew commercialism to make the music they felt led to create. Obviously different times, media, etc. Anyway, that occurred to me.
And as I sit here, "It's Raining Again" is beginning to make my ears bleed - and I'm not even listening to it. Just hearing it in my head. Over and over... Thanks, Steve.
Doug
That's a weird thing. I've just been on YouTube to look for something and the first track it recommended to me was, "Warwick Avenue," by Duffy. She must have achieved the most avoidable shark jump in history. There she was, selling millions of copies of her first album worldwide and looking like she was all set to slug it out with Adele for total global supremacy and then she did an excruciating advert for Diet Coke, on a bicycle, that instantly killed her career stone dead. I remember seeing it for the first time, in a commercial break during the Brit Awards, and sitting there thinking her management must have totally lost their marbles to let her do it.
Steve- some great examples there. Like Doug, I'm uncomfortably reliving "It's Raining Again"...
Marti mentioned Billy Joel, and he came to my mind upon seeing today's subject. In his case, I'd name his "Jump the Shark" moment as 1983, with the "Innocent Man" LP. While the album had some fine cuts (the title track is a big favorite of mine), his several steps into retro pop seemed a bit like a surrender. In particular, the song "Keeping the Faith" struck me as almost defensive: take the line "If it seems I'm lost in let's remember". Joel denies he's stuck in the past, and then proceeds to spend the remainder of the song reminiscing.
As for the question of the 80's simply being 'bad': by no means. Duran Duran started strong and kept making catchy music for years. The Police quit before coming near that shark tank. Perhaps it just wasn't a kind decade for many 60's and 70's acts. Much as I loved McCartney and Wings, by 1978 and "With a Little Luck", they were mostly cringeworthy...
Redartz got in before me - the one that came to mind was Paul McCartney. I liked "Coming Up" in 1980 but then he did those crap duets with Michael Jackson and finally "The Frog Chorus" in 1984. He has lived off his fame as an ex-Beatle ever since and he wallows in his legendary status. Contrast that with George Harrison who said "The Beatles were a rock & roll band - get over it".
Full disclosure - Lady Martinex my wife loves "We Built This City" and has been taunting me with it since I wrote this. It is now cycling through by brain on repeat. Intermittently I am hearing "Its Raining Again" "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" and "Uptown Girl"
Grace Slick said the song 'Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now' was silly because lots of things can stop us.
To me, “they” change their musical style, if they are still even writing music, to reflect their life style that is generally changing around age 35 - 40: wife, children, reduction in testosterone production, religion, settling down… It’s seems pretty straight forward?
Jeff Airplane, Stevie Wonder, McCartney, Who, Led Zepp, Floyd – all these guys peacefully fade away after about 15 – 20 years in the bizz and getting around 40. Perhaps they have to “jump the shark” to finally realize they’ve done so?
Supertramp was curious since Hodgson was “only” in his early 30s when he wrote “It’s raining again.” But a quick Wiki shows he moved his wife and kids from L.A. to a more simple, spiritual life style in northern CA. (So, wife, kids, religion seem to be an influence.)
Lastly, though off topic a wee bit, as they age they really can’t stay relevant to young kids’ musical tastes. Paul, Mick, and Stevie Wonder aren’t going to write songs and draw the same crowd like Chance the Rapper. Chance really doesn’t write stuff that interests me enough to go see him, though I have enjoyed seeing him, from my couch, on SNL.
Similarly (?) young dudes can’t write comics that interest us Bronzers, by in large? Can old dudes write comics that teens dig? I don’t know who write what anymore for comics… Ouch! Thank Heavens for Free Comic Book Day in a few weeks and I can score a half dozen books and “check out the scene!”
Charlie, one need only read the Silver Age Teen Titans to know that old dudes cannot write for teens.
Doug
Wow, a great topic today gents..
I'm going to illuminate my differences with the diehards here, I just know it.., but..
I love 'We Built This City'.., an awesome pop song by anyone's standards, but by the Starship..? Perhaps not.
Personally, they jumped when they did their appearance on the 'Star Wars Holiday Special' debacle a few years prior, but that's considered just an oddity more than a way forward.
Supertramp's legacy was a bit more shortlived, so yes, 'Its Raining Again' was a bit wimpy to say the least. Sorry to say, but they're only 'Breakfast in America' to me...
U2..? I'd say they serious jumped with the 'Zoo Tour' in '92. I wasn't a big fan of 'Rattle and Hum' so I suspect that was more the nadir of their coolness.
Joel jumped with 'We Didn't Start the Fire', along with Huey Lewis's 'Small World', just saw them both just trying to put their world views to song, back in the early '90s when it seemed popular to do, and so both were successful in turning many diehard fans away for good.
Styx's 'Mister Roboto' anyone...?
I did like McCartney's post-prison releases of 'Coming Up' (live version) and 'Tug of War'. Both were concert-rocking and cerebral yet entertaining, respectively. He of course dipped in the '80s with his follow-up releases and 'Broadstreet' movie, but he comfortably moved back to stadium-touring form by 1989. Similar with the Stones and Dylan during that timeframe.
I agree with the Who, apparently years later they all had mentioned that they never liked Kenny as a drummer, one reason they started going with Zach Starr and others.
The advent of the "power ballad" killed many a band. See REO Speedwagon, Journey, et al.
Doug
Additionally, some artists jump the shark when they get too big for their britches - see "Peter Cetera" for Exhibit A. Shoulda stayed in Chicago.
But given their output once he left, maybe... that's why he left. Then again, they'd become a power ballad band before he left anyway.
Maybe I'm on to something with the ballad thing.
Doug
I think Jefferson Starship jumped in 1978 when they performed on the Star Wars Holiday Special. Slick was not present for that appearance because the special was produced during the time she was kicked out of the band after a drunken tirade during a tour of Germany.
They were never that big over hear (beyond "Beds Are Burning"), but Midnight Oil is a band that I loved who later lost me completely. From 1978 to 1990, they put out consistently great albums. Then they released Earth and Sun and Moon and that was the shark jump.
Gents and Mates!
I just quit my job to pursue a PhD in “Shark Jumping” at Columbia in Chicago! (They have open admissions so previous intellectual activity is not required, lol! But it costs!)
I’m thinking the dissertation will be on “UK New Wave Shark Jumping: 1980 – 1990.”
Help me flesh this out a bit! (Jump the Shark = JTS)
Did Heaven 17 and Human League JTS?
Or, did Sheffield JTS?
Or, did New Wave JTS?
Or, did the UK JTS?
Colin B, Colin J, and Steve D.C. – I am especially looking for insights from you since you lived it first hand!!!
With the Power Ballad comment in mind. . . wasn't "Beth" KISS's biggest hit? Did they produce big. . .er. . . "hits" after that?
I have trouble even bringing KISS up, since their very existence was pretty much a cynical cashing-in on the marketability of a from-the-get-go shark-jump. Oh lordy, I couldn't stand them. Even as their prime target demographic when they were at their "height".
HB
HB -
KISS seemed to fall into that "love 'em or hate 'em" group of artists -- and as you stated, that was true for adults and for flaming youth.
I was in the former camp. Couldn't get enough of them during my 5th-7th grade years. So as a card-carrying member of the KISS Army, I'll say that their Dynasty album (with it's attempted disco-hit "I Was Made for Lovin' You") was the shark jump.
KISS was always first and foremost a live experience, and I had the thrill of catching them at the Chicago Stadium in 1978 when I was 12. Target. Audience.
I was browsing a book on KISS a couple of weeks ago (instead I chose to purchase the very fine Beatles '66 - recommended!), and it was interesting to read the take from other artists who served as opening acts for KISS in the early '70s. Of note, Ross Vallory and Neil Schon of Journey stated that the fans wanted no part of what they were playing; in fact it became a little dangerous for the warm-up acts once the crowd had had enough. They'd come to see KISS, and no one else.
So I don't know where KISS falls in the hierarchy of bands, shark jumps, etc. But I'd say it's undeniable that they're a phenomenon. Now, whether they're a phenomenon in music, stage performance, or gross indulgence... I suppose that's up to the beholder.
Doug
Well Charlie, you hit quite a few nails on quite a few heads with your earlier post.
That is, bands/artists start off writing about their distinctive lives and emotions in interesting ways. Then they find an audience and *gasp* become popular. So they start touring, living on the road, getting slicker with both their sound and instruments. The audience starts cheering for the songs they know and demand the music never changes. Meanwhile, money gets involved and it is hard to sing about teenage loneliness when you can have a girl (or boy) in every town. Songs get written in hotel rooms, inspiration is worn down, perhaps they have said all they have to say, the next micro-generation starts to want something different.
So I've always felt that the process of becoming successful is ultimately artistically (and sometimes morally) corrupting. That's a puritanical view but I've seen the process play out so many times...
So, jumping the shark. Many of the 60s groups blew up at the same time, perhaps through the ageing process and punk combined. Honorary mention here goes to Rod Stewart. He had a good run with The Faces and the early solo stuff, but IMO anything from the mid 70s onward is appalling.
As for the New Wave/Post Punk crew, bands either self-consciously ended their career after one record or the inspiration gradually tailed off until one day you turn around and they are no longer interesting. Of the latter, I would include The Cure and New Order. Both stunning in their early years and progressively (and merely) quite good in later years.
Charlie, I don't think the Human League jumped the shark. They just carried on releasing charming singles that gradually sold less and less over a period of twenty years or so until they sold next to nothing.
I don't know what happened to Heaven 17. After a couple of successful albums, they just seemed to disappear into a black hole then had a revival in their guise as the British Electric Foundation and then disappeared back into their black hole again.
Sheffield definitely didn't jump the shark. It's continued to produce a steady stream of idiosyncratic and willful acts over the decades.
The UK didn't jump the shark but it did become musically less interesting as British and American musical culture grew ever closer until now it's pretty much impossible to spot the difference between British and American acts.
I can't really think of any band I loved then stopped liking later; I kind of lost interest in Metallica after the "Black Album", but I lost interest in all music around that time, so I guess I can't blame Metallica for that.
I know a lot of people ended up loathing the Rolling Stones after they jumped on the "disco" bandwagon.
Colin B and Steve DC – I dig your insights! Colin - Really like the use of “micro-generation;” so much meaning conveyed in one word. Steve – you are spot on about our cultures (including what I see in France and Germany) all starting to blur into simply the “biggest 2- 3 brands per category.”
It was quite a time in the late 70s / early 80s we went from “rock” to “punk” to “new wave” and from “real instruments” to “synthesizers” emerging and coexisting with each other. You both have style and panache when you write! Perhaps the two of you can capture that in blog for us observers-from-afar like you wrote about UK comics?
Odd piece of trivia – I was reading up on Heaven 17 recently. They don’t want to tour now unless they have a real orchestra o/wise they feel they would be “less than genuine.” (What???) But then I’m thinking how McCartney does all his concerts with a drummer, bass/lead, keyboard, and Paul. He doesn’t need to an orchestra.
Doug – Ballads! I think you are onto something… perhaps as they get older, and ready to JTS, they dredge up something from their upbringing like “Romeo and Juliette” or “Rob” from “My Three Sons” crooning / wooing / proposing romantically to a girl on a balcony?
Cheers All! Off to the dentist! (Yes - I am seeing Dr. I. Yankem.)
Wow great topic and great comments. I have perhaps a different take on musical artists Jumping the Shark or outliving their usefulness. I think one event that had a profound effect on a lot of rock acts was the death of John Lennon. All through the 70s, everyone wondered if the Beatles would ever get back together. Then, suddenly, Mark David Chapman took care of that possibility.
Shortly, after that there seemed to me to be a return of nostalgic acts. I'm thinking Simon and Garfunkel's 1981 Concert in Central Park is a typical example.
And Marti since you mentioned the Who, I'll talk about them. The Who will always be one of my favorite bands. I'll listen to all those 60s hits, Tommy, Quadrophenia, etc. til the day I die. But yes, albums like It's Hard left me cold. I remember reading an early 80s interview of Pete Townshend where he said something about realizing the value of the Who as "a brand". More bluntly, Entwhistle called the Who his meal ticket. So a new attitude emerged. So what if we've JTS. If fans are willing to cough up big bucks to come see us play our old hits (and we just happen to get richer) then why not.
Tom
Great point Tom. I've heard that "brand" comment before and once they started looking at the "art" (in quotations) as "product" it maybe became a bit more processed, packaged, negligible,
I also think Charlie's point about aging is an aspect. How many people are less passionate about their jobs as the stress of daily living increases? Everything has priorities. And it gets to the point where the work also becomes wrote - wash, rinse, repeat. This is the pattern that works. There is a diminished spark to inspiration, a diminished need to prove yourself - no matter how talented or dedicated you are. I think that is true of writers, artists, chefs and craftsmen to some degree. I bet there can be an algorithm to predict the shark jump. SJ= success x family/stress squared.
I think KISS jumped the shark when they held the big MTV event to reveal their real faces behind the makeup. Kind of a reverse shark jump. It would have been great if under all of the black and white makeup it was really The Who.
And I'm surprised there have been no side comments on Happy Days. The real question is can the result of a shark jump - like Joannie Loves Chachi have its own SJ? I guess it would have to suddenly get good.
Maybe that's a topic for another day - has something almost died, changed its approach, and become miraculously better? X-Men perhaps.
Interesting topic and comments! Robbie Robertson talks about how The Band was losing steam in their later shows, partly due to drug use. They organized The Last Waltz concert as a way to close the book on one period of their lives, and hopefully re-invigorate themselves and move on. They had young families at that point as well. Great book! You get to see the progression of the band from their early Ronnie Hawkins days, to backing Bob Dylan, and eventual success on their own, with Robertson running into many famous people along the way. Highly recommended, even though I'm just a lukewarm fan of The Band: https://www.amazon.com/Testimony-Memoir-Robbie-Robertson/dp/0307401391
There's also a cool documentary called Festival Express, following The Band, Janis Joplin, The Grateful Dead and many more as they take a train trip and play shows across Canada in 1970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGj83lWxOSY
I wonder how Janis and others who died young would have fared over time if they had lived?
Marti, I think Happy Days jumped the shark before the Fonz actually jumped the shark. The decision to make Fonzie the central character in the show instead of sticking with the original concept of a period piece about 50s teens sent the show on a downward spiral.
Hmmm...which came first - Fonzie's shark jump or his motorcycle stunt jump? Maybe the expression should be "Jump 17 garbage cans".
Tom
Did some fact checking. Make that 14 garbage cans. Sorry. Tom
When Areosmith released "I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing" it was all over.
M.P.
The UK finally jumped the shark with Brexit. Now we are having a general election which, thanks to our grossly unfair voting system, will give Theresa May and her Tories a big victory out of all proportion to their actual share of the vote. They can then conduct their mad Brexit negotiations with the EU, claiming they have popular backing. As if the EU will care. Hopefully Scotland will finally have the guts to go for independence and Northern Ireland will re-unite with the Irish Republic - recent elections in N.I. gave the majority of seats to Catholic parties for the first time ever so the possibility of re-uniting with Ireland is getting stronger. And then the Brexit supporters will be left with a wrecked un-UK. My apologies for being political but I don't care 'cause I'm angry.
It's OK mate. I got over our last election, finally. Just takes time, a few pints, a few comics...
Charlie, is your wife following the French election ? The EU cares far more about the French election than ours - in fact, they don't care about ours at all. I assume your wife can't vote in the French election ? In the UK you can't vote in our elections if you've lived outside the country for more than 15 years. That caused a lot of anger for British people living in the EU who couldn't vote in last year's referendum even though the result affected their future.
Hello Collin, my wife can still vote in French elections the toll she has not lived in France for 25 years. Also, my daughter is voting though she has never lived in France permanently. In France citizenship passes with the blood of the mother so my son and daughter are considered French. Yes there is a lot of discussion about the French election and concerns. We clearly do not want to see France make the same mistake.
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