Chew the Fat: Comic Books as the Source Material!

Note: In the following discussion, there may be some slight SPOILERS to the recent superhero movies, particularly Avengers:Infinity War.  We will try to steer clear of any major revelations, but if you are sensitive to any "spoilery" activity or images please tread cautiously.   This topic is not about the movie plots specifically but about the influences from comic books on specific shots or scenes in the movies.

Martinex1: As I've watched recent Marvel movies including Thor: Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Avengers: Infinity War, I have noticed scenes or images that had to be influenced from comics from the Silver and Bronze ages.  Surely there have always been key plot points that follow the tracks of the comics; even lesser movies like The Fantastic Four have had to rely on the source material to tell the story.   Today I am talking about something perhaps more subtle in the movies - the brief instances that cause a bit of deja vu.  A character says or acts in a way that really reflects his comic book personality, or a glimpse of a setting seems to have jumped off of a comic panel, or a bit of action could have come from a comic cover - these are the things I am referring to.  

Sometimes the thought that pops into my head is not even related to the specific series that the movie is based on.  Why would the Avengers remind me of an obscure DC issue?  Or why would Thor seem like another character entirely?  Today let's explore and discuss the influence of comics in general as a source to the movies.

I started thinking about this a few days ago when I posted on our Twitter account that often (specifically in Thor: Ragnarok) Thor seemed more like Hercules from the comic books.  His joy of life and humor and eagerness to jump into battle seemed more like Herc than the sometimes thoughtful and brooding Thor from the comics. Even when dealing with tragedy, the Thor of the movies is less full of vengeance and more accepting and optimistic about the future.  Also some comic images came to my mind.  Thor has partaken in his share of beer and mead, but Hercules always seemed more the reveler.  And a very brief glimpse of Thor on Grandmaster's homeworld reminded me of the cover of Bob Layton's Hercules comic.  Take a look...

 

Now I admit that can be total coincidence, but it goes to show how influential comics can be on the cinematic art or at the very least how pervasive they can be to my interpretation of the film.

In Infinity War, Captain America's brief confrontation of Thanos had to be based on the scenes from the Jim Starlin and Ron Lim comics.  Even though Cap was not in his classic togs with his iconic shield and there was little or no dialog during the fight, there was just that glimmer of idealism and strength that Cap exudes while confronting unbeatable odds.  The directors captured that courage and strength of conviction well.

 Thematically, that is pretty on the nose.  But for something a little more obscure take a look at the final images from Thor: Ragnarok.  The Asgardians evacuate in a giant ship only to be dwarfed by something much larger and ominous.  Here is a look at that parting shot.

The escape craft is in the foreground and behind it is a monstrosity that practically blocks out the stars.  Does that seem familiar to you?   Well it did to me!  It reminded me specifically of Avengers Volume 1 Issue # 167, in which the S.H.I.E.L.D Helicarrier and Nick Fury call the Avengers for help.  The team views the Hellicarrier on their video monitor but there seems to be no sky behind the ship; they pan out to reveal the gigantic ship Drydock which is occupied by the Guardians of the Galaxy.  The comic does not have Asgardians or Thanos in it, but I have to believe the below George Perez image was referenced.

My final example is rather random in that it has no story connection to the Infinity War, the Avengers, the Black Order or any specifics of the movie story,  But when I saw the giant alien wheels unleashed on the warriors and team in Wakanda during the climactic battle, I immediately thought of the Blackhawk comic and the frequent appearances of the Warwheel.

Boy, that crazy thing sure made a lot of appearances (and even in re-crafted covers).  It may have no connection whatsoever to the movie, but it was the first thing that popped into my head when seeing the scene on the silver screen.

So that type of connection is what I would like us to chat about today.  Let's Chew the Fat! What do you think about my examples, and what other instances in recent films had you excited because of their reference and recognizable nature?  Cheers!

This & That: Avengers: Infinity War - Completely SPOILED!

Martinex1: I know some of you have not seen the movie yet, so fair warning that down below and in the comments we will be discussing specifics about The Avengers: Infinity War film.  All story plot points may be SPOILED, so don't proceed if you don't want to be clued in on the happenings in the movie.  Stay away if you have not seen it yet.  Complete SPOILERS below these images...

The Avengers; Infinity War SPOILERS are coming below!

 HERE COME THE SPOILERS!

Martinex1: Okay, let's just start by getting it out in the open... I loved this movie!  If there was ever a movie that felt like a comic book, this had to be it.   I owe my response to the exciting action scenes laced with character development and witty banter.  Of course, I have seen all of the previous Marvel movies, so I came in with a full understanding of the characters and their motivations so the quick leap into the craziness did not affect my viewing.  I did not need all of the characters' backstories and history as those were expanded on in the other movies, so this film was all icing for a ten year long cake.  For me it was like getting the next great issue; I had much the same feeling as when I found a key final installment on a comic spinner rack back in the bronze age.

Redartz:  I'm with you, partner- I loved the movie!  It got out of the gate quick and the pace never let up. As you mentioned, the character backstories were covered in previous films, so this was, to me, like one of the classic Annuals with everything and everyone  thrown into the action. Great fun, edge-of-the-seat film, and what an ending...

Martinex1:  To simplify this discussion, here are a number of things (in no particular order) that I really liked about the movie:

1) Thor was very powerful. I say that as both in his portrayal emotionally and as a heroic figure.  Thor's interaction with Rocket about the death of all of the Asgardians including his brother and friends, was touching.  There was that brief showing of grief and regret followed by a bravado that the character really seemed to believe; I found the acting of Chris Hemsworth to be quite good here. Both Chris Hemworth and Chris Evans have really come to embody their characters. Thor's desire to power up with a new weapon and his focus on that quest were significant for the character; he was still funny but no longer just the fun-loving hero from his last film.  When he finally did show his strength, wrapped in electricity and lightning wielding Stormbreaker against the hordes, I sat up in my seat.  That is the Thor I see in the comics.
2) The scenes between Thanos and the young Gamora.  The first one when Thanos invaded Gamora's home planet demonstrated his ruthless fascist approach and also revealed a strange gentleness in his interaction with the girl.  I think that Thanos may actually be one of the more complex villains to ever reach the screen.  The second in which Thanos seems to visit the little Gamora in the afterlife really echoed some of Jim Starlin's art and design.  The setting was unique and very reminiscent of the comics.
3) Thanos had a clear motive.  I wondered prior to going into the movie if Thanos would be romancing the embodiment of Death.  I think the filmmakers changed and clarified the villain's reasoning and motivations in a way that made it quite horrifying but also believable.  His determination to do what he thought was right in purging the universe made him more than formidable.  And the filmmakers were wise enough to show him making real sacrifices to reach that goal.  Who thought the humanization of the galactic mustache twirler was so possible?
4) The special effects were great.  I really was not taken out of the movie by the special effects.  What must have been an extensive use of green screens and CG seemed very real.  Thanos himself had to be almost entirely a visual effect and yet he always seemed to really be there.  He didn't seem fake at all; he was very weighty and emoted well.  Only afterward did I even think about how he must have been created.
5) Ebony Maw and Proxima Midnight were worthy foes on their own.  Thanos' minions and accomplices from the Black Order received a fair amount of screen time, and two of them really caught my attention.   Ebony Maw, with his slithery voice and evil platitudes, was a surprise to me. I did not know the character as he joined the comic book universe long after I stopped following.  He, however, is somebody that stood out in the movie for me.   His power of moving matter and twisting steel was not only visually unusual but also very "comic booky" (if you allow that phrase).   Just the way he flew about the city on bricks in an upright position was fantastic. And his sinister torture of Dr. Strange made him seem so formidable.  Proxima Midnight also came across as sly and devious.  Not only was she a worthy opponent to the Vision and Scarlet Witch and the Black Widow, but she was a wise strategist.  She tricked the Avengers on a couple of occasions while battling in Wakanda.  The other two in the Order were less notable, but these characters were much more than I expected.
6) Wakanda as the front line.  I really enjoyed seeing Wakanda again, and it was nice to see any super-hero film finale to end anywhere but a big city, particularly New York.   It felt very different to have the epic confrontation taking place in the fields and forests of Wakanda.  Also, it was great to see the heroes and heroines of that land being the champions of Earth as the key invasion took place.
7) The simple things...  Minor touches like Groot offering his arm as the handle for Stormbreaker, the mention of Kevin Bacon, the hero on hero fight between the Guardians and Iron Man's crew, Dr. Strange's and Tony Stark's egos in conflict, the recognition of Captain America's fortitude as he took on Thanos in hand-to-hand combat, nearly every hero getting a key moment all wrapped into a great pastiche.
8) The ending.  It was both touching and complex.  I actually would have liked to see it go on a bit longer and to show some of the effects on other worlds and to show more reaction among the characters.  But it did really cut to the core.  I was particularly moved by Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, and Groot's moments.

Redartz:  What he said. Okay, I can do a bit better than that...
I saw the film with a friend who has some familiarity with the comics, but not so much Thanos and that whole story. He had no trouble following the action, and was quite impressed by the ending. I was struck by the see-saw / rollercoaster ride of the film from start to finish.  It truly had it all; drama, humor, loads of action, and the added plus of unpredictability. Every character had their moment in the spotlight; too many to detail. But a few: Mantis' assault on Thanos being one of my personal favorites. Spider-Man expressing his all-too-human fear to Stark when faced with his looming demise. Wong getting a chance to show his capabilities.

And the ending- left me dumbstruck; a superhero movie in which the villain wins. And I use the term 'villain' somewhat loosely; as Marti noted, Thanos was portrayed with a good deal of complexity.  More so than I recall reading in the comics themselves (which, granted, is incomplete- never having read the Infinity Gauntlet stories). One can certainly condemn his means, but his end goal of improving life for the surviving half of the universe could be considered laudable in some quarters. My friend and I debated the moral questions posed by Thanos' actions all the way home from the theater. Following so soon on the heels of the sociopolitical  subjects addressed in "Black Panther", the social undercurrents flowing beneath "Infinity War" mark an advancing maturity in Marvel cinematic storytelling. It's like witnessing the shift from Silver Age to Bronze Age, but on film rather than newsprint.

Marti, you covered the film much better than I could have; I need to see it again, perhaps a couple more times. Your power of recall  is astounding; surely you must have seen this movie several times in order to maintain such detail...

Martinex1:  And here are a few things that weren't quite stellar but did not totally ruin the movie for me...

1) The Vision.  I thought that the Vision was portrayed mainly as a victim throughout the film.  I know that they stated that the hero's power was adversely affected by the proximity of the villain, but that felt wrong.  How many times can the Vision be stabbed and cut?  His intangibility must be a costly effect because it has hardly been shown at all in the films; I wonder if viewers who never read a comic even know that he can phase through anything.  For such a compelling character, he really seemed water-downed to me.
2) Bruce Banner.  Some note seemed a little off with Banner this time.   I don't really see him as the comic relief, but he seems to have been positioned that way this time.  I also think that some of his early dialogue was wooden.  I like Mark Ruffalo in many of his roles, so I think the script may not have been shaped particularly well for the character.  I did however like the Hulk's reluctance to make an appearance.
3) The Red Skull.  I know this may be a surprise for some, but the showing of this character made little sense to me.  I think that I don't particularly like the idea that somehow he became an immortal protector of the stone.  I understand his connection from the first Cap movie, but it seemed almost like he was rewarded in a strange way for his villainy.  

Redartz:  As noted above, my recall of the detail is still suffering from the 'holy cow' syndrome of the movie as a whole. The result of seeing it only once so far. That said,  I concur with your assessment of the Vision. It would have been welcome to have seen him more active and less incapacitated...

Martinex1:  And here are some things I hope for in the next movie...

1) I hope Captain Marvel is great, but I also hope that the rest of the heroes continue to have the spotlight.   Particularly since we have not met her yet, I hope the whole installment is not centered around her.
2) I hope characters like Ant-Man, the Wasp, Hawkeye, and Valkyrie get a chance in the spotlight.  Like in the comics, I'd like to see the weaker heroes unexpectedly have a shot at the big bad Thanos.
3) Along those lines, I think it would be great to see Hawkeye cheat in a challenge with Thanos much as he did with galactic villains in the comics.
4) I hope that perhaps some of the heroes don't return from the dead.  The repercussions are so heavy in the current movie, that I am not sure I want them all overturned. 
5) I hope it is not predictable.  Somehow Thanos's action has to be reversed of course; I just want it to be just as entertaining as this one.  Will Tony and Pepper have a baby as in his dream?  Will there be a scene of characters inside the Soul Stone?   Will Dr. Strange's one-in-fourteen million chance come true?  Undoubtedly much has been hinted, but it would be nice to see some curve balls as well.

Redartz:  Once again, partner, you cover the material thoroughly and effectively. I look forward to seeing the cinematic version of Carol Danvers. Offhand I'd guess there will be much more to her film than usually seen in a first-time character film. As "Captain America: Civil War" was essentially an Avengers movie, "Avengers: Infinity War" was basically a Thanos film (or a "Marvel Universe" film, if you must). Perhaps "Captain Marvel" will also cast a wider net than it's title might indicate.

Martinex1:  Overall I give the movie 5 out of 5 Bronze Medallions.  Marvel just seems to know how to craft their universe for the silver screen. 'Nuff Said!

Redartz:  We are united on this;  5 out of 5 Bronze Medallions from this viewer as well. Somewhere out there, Jim Starlin must be smiling...

Now share your thoughts and comments in our fully SPOILED session of This & That!

Chew the Fat: Avengers: Infinity War - 1st Impressions!

Martinex1: The biggest movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe made its way to the silver screen this weekend and it seems to be a hit all over the world.  Avengers: Infinity War launched in the U.S. in over 4400 theaters, and it seems that millions flocked to the movies as the film is already setting some records and challenging the Star Wars flicks and Black Panther for overall ticket domination.

So what did you think?  Keep it SPOILER FREE - but give us your first impressions of the movie, the acting, the plot, the characters, and the direction.  Rank the film among the rest of the Marvel movies.  Did it live up to your expectations, exceed them, or not quite make the cut?  Do you continue to be impressed with Marvel on the screen, or do you see cracks in the technique?   Picks or pans? Rave reviews or cautious recommendations?  Thumbs up or thumbs down? Does Marvel continue to dominate the superhero genre?   Do the characters stay in sync or stray from source material?  Does Thanos as a villainous cornerstone live up to the hype and years of build up? What characters stole the show? Are you excited for the next steps or simply fatigued? 

And remember - many of us have seen it but definitely others have not - so please keep the spoilers to yourself!  Surely there is much to critique and comment upon without giving away clues and key plot points.  We know that the movie contains just about every Marvel character who had been in a previous film and we know the big-bad is Thanos...but we may not know the specifics and resolution so be cautious. You can tell us if it lived up to your expectations and if characters left their mark and if it was exciting and if you would see it again or save your money!  First impressions start here...

The Brave Or The Bold: Thanos or Galactus?

Martinex1: There are two major galactic threats existing in the Marvel Universe.  One harkens back to the artistic peak of the Silver Age, while the other's roots are in the creative heights of the Bronze Age.  There is a world-eater and there is a death-lover.   They are of course - Galactus and Thanos!

Both similarly provide existential threats to Earth's mightiest teams and heroes.  Both are driven to eliminate life. Galactus needs to feed his hunger through the consumption of worlds; Thanos wants to sacrifice everything to prove his passion for the manifestation of death.

Jack Kirby created Galactus in the Fantastic Four and his first appearance was mind-blowing.  The creative king also had the big purple planet-eater face off with Thor.  John Byrne explored Galactus' psyche and refined the force-of-nature aspects of Galactus.  He was an alien who considered humans as little more than ants in his picnic basket.

Jim Starlin explored and expanded upon Thanos' strange obsession.  Whether battling Captain Marvel, Warlock, Spider-Man, Thing, the Avengers, or the whole Marvel Universe, Thanos was laser focused and obsessed with the end of everything.  He was willing to embrace oblivion in order to impress his bony girlfriend. 

What do you think about these two villains?   Who is the better (or worse)?  What makes him so?  What are the best stories revolving around the two threats, and why are they so great? Make your case as both are fan favorites. Today share your comments about these big bad boys at Back in the Bronze Age!