Redartz: Greetings everyone, and salutations on this Memorial Day (US). On this weekend we honor those who have served so gallantly in the armed forces. In this spirit, today we will look at some of Marvel and DC's 'war comics'. This is a genre of comics I'm admittedly less familiar with. I've read a few Sgt. Fury stories. From DC, I've read some Sgt. Rock stories, "Haunted Tank", "The Losers" and "Enemy Ace". Therefore my comments will be brief, and I trust all of you to further educate me on these comics.
From my very limited exposure to these comics, I have noticed a general difference in tone between the companies (and this may not be accurate, so all of you who have read these stories are free to correct me here). Marvel's war books seem to be fairly straightforward battle/combat issues, heavy on action. DC's books, to my eye, have a somewhat darker, more thoughtful feel. That may be a reflection of the team of writer Robert Kanigher and artist Joe Kubert, who produced most of the DC war stories I've seen.
Plus, in the case of Marvel's Sgt. (and later Col.) Nick Fury, the character has been deeply involved with many other elements of the Marvel Universe. He was an early crossover in "Fantastic Four", he met Captain America, and of course later was involved with S.H.I.E.L.D. Over at DC, although their battle veterans have made numerous appearances (Sgt. Rock teaming with Batman in Brave and the Bold, Enemy Ace appeared in Justice League), they don't seem to have the same prominent level of involvement. They seem almost to occupy their own 'pocket universe' all their own.
At any rate, the writing and art in many of these books is striking. Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Arnold Drake, and Gary Freidrich were among Marvel's battle writers, and Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers, and John Severin drew many of those stories. For DC, Kanigher and Kubert were a great combo. with more fine art from the likes of Mort Drucker, Russ Heath and Severin. All well worth a look. And this reader shall: as the years pile up on this Bronze ager, my comics tastes have widened greatly. As much as I love those costumed heroes, it's been rewarding to explore other genres too. Many of these stories (particulary the Kanigher/Kubert) give the reader some fodder for serious thought. That has to be good...
And now, let's look at some covers:
23 comments:
I read The Losers and The Unknown Soldier before I was aware of any other war books so I have more sentimental attachment to them. With that being said they still feel very emotional to me. Nothing came easy for these characters and that added interest to me.
Hi All!
Red - great post today. I had a conversation like this around 1975 or so... recall it vividly. It was at the end of my comic-reading days. In general, my buddy and I felt that, while nearly all the stories were "over the top," Marvel's war comics were more/less an extension of superhero antics in military garb, whereas DC and Charlton were more straight forward "war." Can't forget Charlton... they cranked out a ton of war comics too; I assume way more than Marvel for sure in the 60s and 70s.
As a kid in the Bronze Age, I didn't get too many war comics -- a few Sgt. Furys, and a couple of DC's Weird War tales. I'm familiar enough with the WWII sergeants to agree with the assessment that Sgt Fury was more typical Marvel far-out action exploits and Sgt. Rock somewhat more realistic and thoughtful. Based on what I'd read about them in The Comics Journal, I got collections of EC's Two-Fisted Tales and Frontline Combat, written, edited and sometimes drawn by Harvey Kurtzman, and for me they lived up to their reputations as among the best comics ever that just happen to focus on war in a realistic and thought-provoking way.
Though I didn't read the war comics, a good friend was an avid fan of Sgt Fury.
However, I did enjoy it when they would flesh out the backstory of Reed Richards and Ben Grimm in their pre-FF days during WWII. Reed was in issue #3 of Sgt Fury and Ben was in issue #7 of Capt. Savage and His Leatherneck Raiders. Issue #13 of Sgt Fury was a great adventure with WWII Cap and Bucky temaing up with the Howling Commandos. It was always fun to see the Marvel Universe expand to the past.
Of course, I also enjoyed The 'Nam, by Doug Murray & Michael Golden, at the tail end of the Bronze Age.
I never got into Unknown Soldier for some reason, but I liked Sgt. Rock and G.I. Combat. I've heard good things about Enemy Ace, but haven't gotten around to reading many of the stories. I always liked the Losers, and I loved the Losers Special that came out concurrent with Crisis. Of course, that was later taken out of canon, but it's still a good story.
I wasn't a regular reader of any of the war comics, but I did pick up copies several times a year. Sgt Rock was my favorite, but I collected most of Kirby's run on the Losers and GI Combat when it became a dollar comic. I pretty much missed out on Fury because he was in reprint mode and for some reason, I don't remember it being a regular at my neighborhood distributor. I think the only ones I got, I picked up used at a school carnival.
One thing about all of them was that I don't think any of them romanticized war at all. For all of them, it was a necessary, but nasty business that had to be done.
If I may...
If any of you want to read a pretty good war comic, which are basically extinct at this day in age, check out "Peter Panzerfaust" about a group of french orphans, led by a young american, fighting Germans in France in 1940.
It would have been a winner in the Bronze Age, for sure!
Thanks for joining us today, all. Many folks are busy today, your comments mean a lot!
Charlie- thanks for mentioning Charlton. They did publish some war books, though I've not read any. Have you read any, and if so how did they compare artistically (going up against Kubert is an unenviable task)?
Fred W.Hill- glad you mentioned the EC books. Kurtzman was brilliant, and the high regard those stories are held in is certainly justified.
Mike W.- by all means, check out Enemy Ace. Truly unlike anything else I've read in a comic. Another example of a book that puts the lie to the old adage "comics are just for kids".
I've read a few of the Charlton comics like those depicted (Navy War Heroes) and they were good stories mainly focused on the heroism of the troops - although they did not have the artistic style of Kubert to lend to the feel. Like all of Charlton, they may have just been a notch behind DC and Marvel, but were reasonable tales from the front.
I agree that Sgt Fury and the Howling Commandos were shaped more like a superhero team with the same type of dynamics amongst the characters.
I am not sure if it fits into the classic war comics from the late 60s and early 70s or the topic of the day, but I really liked the Sad Sack books.
It is interesting to me that my older brother and older cousins were much more into the war comics than I ever was. I liked G.I. Joes as well, but they were into that, the small army men, and all of the military movies, etc. They were coming of age around 1970 - just 25 years after the end of WWII. Just a handful of years later, I don't think I was exposed to it as much and was more interested in astronauts and the space race.
Marti- your comment about your older relations and their fondness for war comics hit home. I had a close friend who voraciously read war comics, but wouldn't touch a superhero book. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. Oh, you are quite correct- Sad Sack was fun. Lots of fun. "Hi Fi Tweeter" looked wild, with his wavy hair and sunglasses...
By the way, many thanks to you, partner, for those black/white illustrations. Absolutely incredible.
Whoa! If Sad Sack is play, then he's right at the top of "war" comics. I broke out the long box and gave my 12 year old nephew a stack of Sad Sacks last year. Poor kid got addicted to the point that his grades started suffering and his parents banned him from Sack (and D.C. Thomson comics).
Truth be told, UK's D.C. Thomson had some of the most awesome war stories of all in the Bronze Age with titles like Victor and Hotspur. Maybe Steve D.C. and the Colins could do another guest UK column on this... please???!!!
Charlton seemed to have a war comic for every form of warfare: bombers, fighters, submarines, frog men, army, navy, etc. Stories and art were certainly serviceable but nothing "memorable" like Kubert's Rock and Enemy Ace.
And as a connoisseur of war comics in the 60s and 70s, I would say EC had the best with its Two-Fisted and such. (Even my son who has minimal interest in comics raves about those.) But that is before even the Silver Age.
Cheers!
Forgot about the Sad Sack. Loved to read those. Beetle Bailey too, of course.
Our Army at War was one of the premier DC titles and was launched in 1952 by Editor Bob Kanigher while American and Allied forces were involved in the Korean War. EC Comics had led the way with war anthology comics with Two-Fisted Tales (November/December 1950 to February/March 1954) and Frontline Combat (July/August 1951 to January 1954) under the guidance of Harvey Kurtzman and other publishers such as Charlton, Quality, Fawcett and Atlas/Timely/Marvel were contributing to the genre as well. DC responded with new title Our Army at War and renaming existing titles: All-American Western became All-American Men of War and Star-Spangled Comics became Star-Spangled War Stories and all three made their debut dated August 1952. Our Fighting Forces followed in 1954 and G I Combat was a Quality Comics title acquired by DC and completed DC's Big 5 in 1957.
Under Kanigher's guidance the war comics became very successful. Kanigher had a good eye for artists and used the best available. Joe Kubert was the best of the best and the pairing of Kanigher and Kubert was without peer. Kanigher by most accounts was difficult to work with but Kubert found Kanigher very professional and able to evoke images with his writing that were so graphic that they spurred the artist on to draw very high quality illustrations. The prototype for Sgt.Rock appeared in G. I. Combat #68 (January 1959) in a story edited, plotted and scripted by Bob Kanigher and drawn by Joe Kubert. The character evolved and appeared in Our Army at War #81 (April 1959, script by Bob Haney, pencil art by Ross Andru, inks by Mike Esposito), Our Army at War #82 (Haney again with Mort Drucker providing art) and eventually the character fully emerged as Sgt. Rock in Our Army at War #83 with the series' enduring team of Kanigher and Kubert.
Sgt. Rock became America's most famous comic book soldier and an iconic representation of what is believed to be the best qualities of the American fighting man. The character was so successful that Our Army at War was renamed Sgt. Rock with #302 (March 1977) and continued publication until #422 (June 1988). Our Army at War also saw the first appearance of my favourite war series, Enemy Ace. Hans Von Hammer was introduced by Kanigher and Kubert in Our Army at War #151 (February 1965) going on to appear in Showcase and Star-Spangled War Stories for an extended run (1968 -1976).
Another classic was Star-Spangled Comics launched by DC in 1941 as a superhero anthology title featuring Star-Spangled Kid by Jerry Seigel and Hal Sherman. Star-Spangled Kid remained as the cover star until #7 (April 1942) with the debut of Guardian and the Newsboy Legion by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. Robin took over the cover and featured in his first solo series starting with #65 (February 1947). DC put Tomahawk on the covers starting with #96 (September 1949) to appeal to the increasing popularity of the western genre. All-American had been retitled All-American Western in 1948 and All-Star followed becoming All-Star Western in 1951. DC switched genres to mystery and horror with #122 (November 1951). Ghost-Breaker got the cover even though both Robin and Tomahawk were still in the comic. Bob Kanigher finally got his hands on the title in 1952 and Star-Spangled War Stories became part of DC's assault on the war comics market with #131. DC decided to start re-numbering the title with the November 1952 issue but astonishingly for modern comics fans chose to ignore a new #1 and start with #3. This would mean that there are comics in the series which share the same number (#131, #132 and #133). Bob Kanigher assembled a stellar team of artists including Irv Novick, Jerry Grandenetti, Russ Heath, Ross Andru and Joe Kubert. The first recurring character made her debut in #84 (August 1959). Mademoiselle Marie was created by Bob Kanhiger and Jerry Grandenetti and was a member of the French resistance. Bob Kanhiger, Ross Andru and Mike Esposito then launched a comics classic, The War that Time Forgot, in #90 (April/May 1960) which pitched American military personnel into combat with prehistoric dinosaurs on a remote Pacific Island. My favourite war series, Enemy Ace, became the headliner in #138 (April/May 1968) by the peerless team of Kanigher and Kubert. Bob Kanigher and Joe Kubert had introduced Enemy Ace in Our Army at War #151 (February 1965, also appearing in #153 and #155). The character also had a trial in Showcase (#57 - #58) before settling in Star-Spangled War Stories for an extended run (#138 - #161, #181 - #183, #200, 1968-1976). The next classic series to make its home in Star-Spangled War Stories was the Unknown Soldier in #151 (June/July 1970), written and drawn by Joe Kubert. The Unknown Soldier had first appeared in a Sgt.Rock story in Our Army at War #168 (June 1966) by Kanigher and Kubert. The great Bob Haney first scripted the series in #155 (February/March 1971). Unknown Soldier continued to headline for the remainder of the comic's run until #204 (February/March 1977), when it was renamed Unknown Soldier until cancellation with #268 (October 1982). Over 40 years as an ongoing title with just over 30 years as a war comic, a true DC classic!
A third DC war comic, All-American Comics, is one of the most important titles in DC history as it shared its title with its original publisher All-American Publications which alongside National Allied Publications and Detective Comics evolved into what we now know as DC Comics. The first issue was cover dated April 1939 and was an anthology covering humour and adventure stories. No single character dominated the cover until the debut of Green Lantern in #16 (July 1940). The Atom made his debut in #19 (October 1940) and Dr Mid-Nite in #25 (April 1941) but Green Lantern remained the star until #100 (August 1948) when Julius Schwartz took over as editor and introduced Johnny Thunder by Bob Kanigher and Alex Toth to capitalise on the interest in the western genre. The success of the switch to westerns brought about a name change and so starting with #103 (November 1948) the comic was titled All-American Western. The interest in the western genre faded and war comics was the next trend so All-American Western became All-American Men of War with #127 (August/September 1952) coinciding with the release of Our Army at War and the re-naming of Star-Spangled Comics under the editorship of the man who shared an office with Julius Schwartz, Bob Kanigher. As they did with Star-Spangled War Stories DC decided to renumber the series starting with the December 1952 issue which was numbered as #2. Once again avoiding the #1 as at the time it was felt that readers would avoid a new title! How times have changed! Kanigher used his team of top artists including Jerry Grandenetti, Russ Heath, Irv Novick, Alex Toth and Joe Kubert to produce a high quality war anthology comic. Gunner and Sarge made their debut in #67 (March 1959) in a story by Bob Kanigher, Ross Andru and Mike Esposito although these characters did not continue in the pages of All-American Men of War but went on to have a long run in Our Fighting Forces. The longest running star feature made his debut in #82 (November/December 1960). Johnny Cloud was a Native American World War II pilot created by Bob Kanigher and Irv Novick who continued to feature in the title until cancellation with #117 (September/October 1966). Johnny Cloud later became a member of The Losers alongside Gunner and Sarge and Captain Storm, initially in G I Combat and subsequently in Our Fighting Forces. Irv Novick's art for Johnny Cloud was used as a template for Whaam! by Roy Lichtenstein, an early example of "Pop-Art". Towards the end of the title's life there was an attempt to launch another star feature, Lt. Steve Savage, Balloon Buster, who was an American counterpoint to Enemy Ace. His first appearance was in #112 (November/December 1965) in a story by Bob Kanigher and Russ Heath. Unfortunately Balloon Buster and Johnny Cloud were not strong enough to sustain the title and it was cancelled with #117 (September/October 1966). The failure to find a popular star feature had caused the demise of this classic title. Attempts to revive it were tried with a Men of War comic which sometimes featured Enemy Ace, but starred Codename: Gravedigger, #1 (August 1977) - #26 (March 1980). More recently the New 52 relaunch by DC saw eight issues of Men of War released with an updated Sgt. Rock, it failed to find an audience.
After DC had successfully entered the war comics market in 1952 Editor Bob Kanigher was instructed to launch another title and Our Fighting Forces was the result, making its debut cover dated October/November 1954. The comic followed the tried and tested formula of the other war anthologies and featured high quality art from the best in the business including Jerry Grandenetti, Russ Heath, Joe Kubert, Ross Andru and Irv Novick. As with the other war books Kanigher started to introduce recurring characters in the late fifties and Our Fighting Forces became home to Gunner and Sarge. These two marines had first appeared in All-American Men of War #67 (March 1959) in a story by Bob Kanigher, Ross Andru and Mike Esposito and made their Our Fighting Forces debut in #45 (May 1959) in a story by Kanigher and Grandenetti. Gunner and Sarge gained a canine companion in the form of a German Shepherd called Billy but referred to as Pooch in #49 (September 1959). Gunner, Sarge and Pooch were the stars of the book through to #94 (August 1965). Kanigher then decided to switch to stories featuring Lt. Rock, The Fighting Devil Dog. Larry Rock was Sgt. Frank Rock's brother who fought with the marines in the Pacific while his brother battled the Nazis in Europe with the army. Larry first appeared in a story by Kanigher and Irv Novick in #95 (October 1965). Unfortunately Lt. Rock did not have the same level of success as his brother and was replaced in #99 (April 1966) by a series set in the contemporary Vietnam war. Kanigher and Novick introduced Capt. Phil Hunter who was a Green Beret on a quest to rescue his brother Nick, a pilot who had been shot down by the Viet Cong. There was too much controversy surrounding the Vietnam war for Capt. Hunter to succeed and so Kanigher went back a generation, literally, and returned to the less ambiguous battles fought in World War II. Ben Hunter was Phil's father who led a group of military prisoners in a special squad called Hunter's Hellcats. This direct copy of The Dirty Dozen movie first appeared in a story by Howard Liss and Jack Abel in #106 (March/April 1967). Hunter's Hellcats had a decent run through to #123 (January/February 1970) when Joe Kubert, who had taken over as editor of the war comics in 1968, assigned his top writer, Bob Kanigher, to form a group from characters who had previously been headliners. Our Fighting Forces' own Gunner and Sarge joined Johnny Cloud from All-American Men of War and Captain Storm from his own short lived title in The Losers. The Losers first appeared in a Haunted Tank story in G I Combat #138 (October/November 1969) by Bob Kanigher and Russ Heath. Bob Kanigher focussed on the tragic aspects of war, as tragic as DC war comics could get anyway, and the series was a long running success. Joe Kubert drew some excellent covers starting with their debut in Our Fighting Forces #123 (January/February 1970).
Our Fighting Forces #151 (October/November 1974) also had a stylish Kubert cover that did not hint at the fact that it was all change inside the comic because the King had arrived! Jack Kirby was now writing, pencilling and editing the title and DC's traditional approach was out, replaced by full length, full on Kirby. The King also drew on his World War II experience as a combat infantry soldier in Patton's US 3rd Army in the European theatre to illustrate weapons and medals in splash pages. Those used to Bob Kanigher's plots and scripts and DC war book art were not best pleased and Kirby's fan base weren't buying war books. Kirby's run was short but very exciting but Kanigher was back in #163 (January 1976).
Contemporary readers of DC war comics failed to see Kirby's brilliance. Kirby returned to Marvel and Our Fighting Forces continued for two more years under the editorship of Murray Boltinoff before cancellation with #181 (September/October 1978). A great war comic had provided high quality entertainment for 24 years.
The final title of DC's Big 5 War Comics did not originate with DC but was a Quality Comic Publication that DC continued to publish after purchasing the company. DC also continued to publish Quality's Blackhawk but chose not to hand Blackhawk to Editor Bob Kanigher as they did with G I Combat. Quality launched G I Combat in 1952 hot on the heels of DC's Our Army at War, Star-Spangled War Stories and All-American Men of War. Quality ceased publishing their entire line with comics cover dated December 1956. DC purchased their assets and integrated characters such as Plastic Man, Doll Man, Phantom Lady, Kid Eternity and Miss America into their continuity. DC took the decision to keep publishing Blackhawk and G I Combat and these titles retained their numbering and publishing schedule. Quality's last issue of G I Combat was #43 (December 1956) and DC's first was #44 (January 1957). Bob Kanigher kept the cover copy "War Front Fury, Battlefield Adventures", bullet logo and title logo but assigned the interior to his own established artists, Grandenetti and Kubert in the first issue. Kanigher himself wrote the stories with contributions from Bob Haney, Bill Finger and others. Quality's cover artists Dick Dillin and Chuck Cuidera continued to work on DC's continuation of Blackhawk with Dillin eventually becoming a long time Justice League of America penciller from 1968 until his death in 1980.
A Sgt. Rock prototype appeared in #68 (January 1959) in a story by Bob Kanigher and Joe Kubert. G I Combat was the last of DC's Big 5 to gain a recurring star feature but when it did the feature was one of the longest running and most successful of all the war series. Haunted Tank first appeared in #87 (April/May 1961) in a story by Bob Kanigher and Russ Heath. The concept of a World War II Stuart tank commanded by Lieutenant Jeb Stuart and haunted by the ghost of Confederate Civil War General J. E. B. Stuart was a stroke of genius. Johnny Cloud made a guest appearance in #115 (December 1965/January 1966) in a story by Kanigher and Heath which also featured Sgt. Rock. Johnny Cloud was back in #138 (October/November 1969) alongside Gunner and Sarge and Captain Storm in a story by Kanigher and Heath which introduced the Losers, who went on to have a long run in Our Fighting Forces. G I Combat continued through to #288 (March 1987), finally becoming a casualty to Crisis on Infinite Earths. Bob Kanigher was still writing the stories thirty years after taking over the title as both writer and editor.
The G I Combat title had lasted longer than all of the other DC Big 5 titles. All-American Men of War was cancelled in 1966, Star-Spangled War Stories switched titles to Unknown Soldier in 1977 and was cancelled in 1982 and Our Fighting Forces was cancelled in 1978. Our Army at War did last until 1988 but it had switched titles to Sgt. Rock in 1977. A great war comic and a lasting legacy to the great artists who worked on it and the master of war comic writing, the great Bob Kanigher.
Simayl- wow, excellent overview of war comics and their history! Thanks so much for providing all this info. I was unaware that Kirby did some war stories during his Bronze age DC stint. Definitely something to investigate. Actually, you describe many series here that I'll have to look into.
Glad you noted the artistic contributions of Andru, Dillin and Grandenetti. Jerry Grandenetti, in particular, produced some fantastic illustration.
And it's fascinating to learn about DC's unusual renumbering practice back then. Starting with issue 2; remarkable how the editorial viewpoint has shifted over the ensuing years. It's a sign of respect for great titles such as All-Star and All-American that they were allowed to continue for so long, even with some title variations.
Not much into the war comics either, I have picked up several good Silver Age SGT Fury's in mint condition just for the nice artistic covers. I'm sort of partial to him because I remember my Dad buying me a Captain Action 'SGT Fury' costume set as a kid, along side my Superman and Aquaman sets..
I recall being given that Combat Kelly first issue as part of a box of comics, but I've long since gotten rid of it.
It's not so much the war comics, but I'm always a sucker for Silver Age Marvel comics.., as most of you already know.
The Dirty Dozen was the #1 hit movie of 1967, and naturally there was some sincere flattery. Besides DC's Hunter's Hellcats, there was a TV series, Garrison's Gorillas (1967-68), about paroled convicts in a commando-type unit. The movie The Devil's Brigade (1968) was based on the true story of the First Special Service Force; some of the soldiers in that outfit were, in effect, on parole or probation. In the 1970's, Marvel and Atlas/Seaboard got into the act with, respectively, Combat Kelly and His Deadly Dozen, and Sgt. Stryker's Death Squad. By then, though, war comics were already fading away.
All-American Comics and Star-Spangled Comics are sort of a microcosm, illustrating the evolution of the comic book medium. You can see their formats adapting to whatever genre was popular at the time: superheroes, Westerns, war. You can also see the trend away from anthologies and toward ongoing series with continuing characters. Star-Spangled became Unknown Soldier, just as Our army at War became Sgt. Rock, Journey Into Mystery became Thor, My Greatest Adventure became Doom Patrol, and Tales to Astonish became Incredible Hulk (volume #2).
Captain Storm was the first DC Silver Age action hero to debut in his own self-titled comic book, without first having a try-out in an anthology title (Showcase, Brave & Bold). He later ended up in Our Fighting Forces as a member of The Losers, along with other characters (Johnny Cloud, Gunner & Sarge) whose solo series had been cancelled.
PT boat officers were still a hot topic in 1964, thanks to our martyred President Kennedy (who was officer-in-charge of Patrol Torpedo Boat #109 in WWII). That may account for DC's initial confidence in the character. The later relegation of Storm and the others from solo strips to an ensemble series may indicate a decline in the popularity of war comics in general.
Captain Savage and his Leatherneck Raiders strained credulity by having a Navy submarine officer in charge of a squad of Marine Raiders. Not only would Savage lack the training and experience for that kind of job, a Navy captain (equivalent to an Army or Marine colonel) would not be placed in charge of a unit that small. It might have been plausible if Savage had been a young ensign or lieutenant, and had a background in UDT (Underwater Demolition Teams, the forerunner of Navy SEALs).
The Losers had that same improbable premise (mixing a PT boat skipper, a fighter pilot, and two infantrymen) in the same unit, and then sending them on commando/UDT/Ranger-type missions, but at least that series was usually better written and drawn than Marvel's.
IIRC, Charlton's war comics were generally anthologies, although there was a series called American Eagle (think Fury and the Howling Commandos as fighter pilots) in Fightin' Air Force in the 1960's. In the Bronze Age, all of the Charlton war comics that I saw were reprints.
George Baker's Sad Sack strip was originally published in Stars & Stripes or Yank, and was slightly risque by 1940's standards. When Harvey published it in the 1960's, it was toned down, and was strictly a kid's comic. Harvey also published Gabby Gob, basically a sailor version of Sack.
It's true that DC's war comics usually existed in a different universe from the super-heroes, and they may have been aimed at a slightly older audience. (My eldest cousin, a teenager at the time, was a fan of Sgt. Rock, but looked down his nose at Batman and Superman, which he called "kid stuff.") The war characters did cross over with each other from time to time. Mlle. Marie might guest star in Sgt. Rock, and the Haunted Tank visited Dinosaur Island in one story.
Of course, Nick Fury was part of the larger Marvel universe early on, guest starring with Captain America and the Avengers in the present time, and with Cap and Bucky teaming up with the Howlers in the WWII comic. Lt. Ben Grimm appeared in an issue of Captain Savage.
In the Bronze Age, DC was emulating Marvel, with more complex plots and character development. And, like Marvel, they were integrating all of their characters and series into one universe. So Sgt. Rock occasionally teamed up with Batman in Brave & Bold, in stories set in the present (still on active duty, at the same rank, thirty years later!?), and there was an early 1980's Justice League story where they went back in time to the Old West and met some of the Western heroes, like Jonah Hex and Bat Lash. Previously, the Westerns, like the war comics, had been completely separate from the super-heroes.
TC- thank you for the detailed information! Very good discussion of All-American and Star Spangled as bellwethers of popular taste in comics. History is fascinating, comics are as well. So a discussion of comics history is doubly rewarding. You and Simayl have given us all an excellent primer in the war genre. Very helpful to a novice in this area like myself.
Besides teaming with Sgt. Rock several times in Brave & Bold, Batman encountered a descendant of Enemy Ace in Detective Comics #404. And Rock, Blackhawk, and Unknown Soldier each co-starred with Superman in DC Comics Presents.
Captain Savage first appeared in Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos, as the commander of the submarine Sea Wolf, in about a half dozen stories where the Howlers were transported by submarine en route to their missions. AFAIK, his self-titled spin-off series never explained why a submarine officer was assigned to lead a Marine Raider (i.e., guerilla warfare) squad. And, yes, he was also too high in rank to lead such a small unit (about a dozen men, or fewer).
Nick Fury was a buck sergeant and a squad leader in WWII, so he was in a job appropriate for his rank. But then, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were Army veterans, and presumably understood such details.
Admittedly, Fury and the Howlers often seemed more like super-heroes than soldiers, and the comic sometimes treated war as a romp. But not always. The deaths of continuing characters Junior Juniper and Pamela Hawley, and later stories like "The Informer," "The War Lover," and "The Deserter" were obviously intended to bring some realism to the series.
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