Martinex1: The movie has been out for a full two weekends in the States, so it is time for an unfiltered, unhindered, spoiler-laced discussion of Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2. Let's talk about everything in the movie including but not limited to the plot, character development, special effects, key story beats, Mantis, Yondu, Ego, baby Groot, humor, villainy, the soundtrack, and the credit scenes,
To get the ball rolling, consider the following queries about this sequel:
Did the movie expand on the first film or just mimic it; did it add to the overall Marvel Universe?
Were the new characters welcome additions to the group; do you feel you know the characters better now?
Was it repetitive or innovative? Did it live up to the hype and expectations?
Many other movies imitated the first GOTG film and started to rely on songs of the 70s for their soundtracks; was GOTG Vol 2 successful in its musical decisions?
If there is one criticism of Marvel films, it is that the villains are underdeveloped and one-note - what did you think of the villainy here?
How did the movie reflect the comic book universe? Do you feel it was faithful to the imaginary universe we grew up with in the Bronze Age?
What would you have liked to see more or less of in the film?
Share your thoughts, reviews, critiques, and commentary. And please don't read the comments if you have not seen the movie and want to remain unspoiled. Cheers!
16 comments:
Did the movie expand on the first film or just mimic it; did it add to the overall Marvel Universe?
I felt GotG2 was a sequel in the purest sense. It took what we already knew and expanded upon it. The characters got deeper, there was no need for much backstory so that wasn't a point that was belabored as is so often seen in first installments. I felt like we saw the personalities of Drax, Rocket, and Groot flower appropriately, most often with hilarity as a result.
Did the film deliver on the humor and good will that was apparent in the first film?
Yes! This film was laugh-out-loud funny on several occasions. I saw it by myself, as my movie-buddy sons no longer live at home. I still enjoyed the experience.
Were the new characters welcome additions to the group; do you feel you know the characters better now?
I've seen complaints online about the Mantis character, some of them centering around stereotypes of Asian females. While I thought that particular critic's comments had merit, I'll focus on the character as we knew her in the Bronze Age. I guess after seeing Yondu completely reworked this new version of Mantis didn't bother me too much. I was waiting for some martial arts mayhem that sadly never arrived. But she could be a good addition -- really, we didn't see enough of her to get a good enough sense of where they'll take the character.
Was it repetitive or innovative? Did it live up to the hype and expectations?
If getting what you expect from the characters is repetitive, then I'm all for it. I want to know who these people (or raccoons) are and get to know them better. The movie did that for me. Was the plot repetitive? Aren't they all? Who cares... we've been reading slam/bang comics for almost 50 years.
Many other movies imitated the first GOTG film and started to rely on songs of the 70s for their soundtracks; was GOTG Vol 2 successful in its musical decisions?
What did you think about the scenes interspersed in the closing credits? Are you looking forward to future Marvel escapades?
Loved the new soundtrack!! And it's amazing how many cuts are now in regular rotation on Sirius/XM's "70s on 7" channel.
If there is one criticism of Marvel films, it is that the villains are underdeveloped and one-note - what did you think of the villainy here?
This is a major disadvantage of a 2 1/2 hour film, as opposed to the organic development that can take place in a periodical magazine. The movie's will always suffer here, but it's simply due to the format.
How did the movie reflect the comic book universe? Do you feel it was faithful to the imaginary universe we grew up with in the Bronze Age?
I think we can all agree that the MCU is not the Marvel Universe we grew up with. But that's OK. I have accepted this. And as we've discussed before, I also accept that the MCU is "Marvel history" to most superhero-loving folks of today.
What would you have liked to see more or less of in the film?
I don't know about this film, but I'm looking forward to seeing "our" Guardians on the screen next time. Sure, they aren't exactly as we knew them, but I had a feeling when I saw the crystal-looking dude with Stallone, and then got all giddy when I knew that our big boy at the end was Charlie-27. Very nostalgic. Alluding to a previous comment, I think I was the only one in my audience of around 40 people who reacted at all. No one else that I could see seemed to "get it".
Continued...
Doug
In general was the acting, script, action, dialogue, and plot up to your expectations? How do you rank this compared to other Marvel cinematic offerings?
I really want to see this again. If I'd been asked for my thoughts in an exit poll, I think I'd have gushed. C'mon... the Watchers??? And Rocket and Drax (and Groot, too) were hilarious. Loved some of the dialogue/banter.
So here's my revised Marvel "love em!" list (and I'm tossing in a non-MCU Spidey film):
1. Captain America: Winter Soldier
2. Avengers
3. Guardians of the Galaxy, vol. 2
4. Spider-Man 2
5. Iron Man
6. Captain America: Civil War
7. Ant-Man
8. Captain America: The First Avenger
9. Guardians of the Galaxy
10. Avengers: Age of Ultron
But that could all change the next time I think about it.
Looking forward to others' thoughts.
Doug
Ok, not to shock TOOOOO many people here, but yes, I had an evening free while on military duty these last 2 weeks, so I saw it at a local theatre. Having not seen the first one, I decided that I'd still get the 'jist' of the flick.
AND having finally figured out my government iPhone, I installed Netflix on it and started watching 'Civil War' as well, yet another I haven't seen yet.
GOTG2..? Well ok, amazing start, and they're STILL gasping about how they did the late '70s Kurt Russell, utterly gobsmacked at that. Still am.
I generally liked the first half, the second seemed to drag a bit (partial also because I was tired and, for one of my rare forays into movie theaters these days, was VERY annoyed with the cracklin' candy wrappers behind and to the left of my seat). Plus the theatre showed the same Skittles commercial five times prior to the movie start.
FIVE TIMES...
Anywho, back to the flick, I liked having Mantis, but obviously she bore zero resemblance to the '70s favorite of mine. So she could have had any name and it wouldn't have made the slightest difference.
MAJOR KUDO'S to the 'Howard the Duck' cameos.., kinda interested in where that goes.
And finally, loved the Stan Lee bit at the end. We finally get an inspired bit for him to play, rather than the FF's mailman. Probably beats his cameo being mistaken for 'Hugh Hefner' in the Iron Man flick.
And who gets to hear 'My Sweet Lord' in flicks these days....? Like.., wow.
As for Civil War..? Eh, so far it's alright. Still hoping to purchase Ant-Man soon on Blu-ray to finally see that.
Did the movie expand on the first film or just mimic it; did it add to the overall Marvel Universe?
It added.
Did the film deliver on the humor and good will that was apparent in the first film?
Absolutely. Lotta great lines delivered with perfect comedic timing.
Were the new characters welcome additions to the group; do you feel you know the characters better now?
I do not expect faithful recreations of any comic character I grew up with. The fact that I am seeing an antenna-horned Mantis in a $200M film is just so unbelievable I roll with whatever changes they want to make.
Was it repetitive or innovative? Did it live up to the hype and expectations?
It was fun and a totally new adventure. It did not, however, live up to my expectations. Good, not great like GotG.
Many other movies imitated the first GOTG film and started to rely on songs of the 70s for their soundtracks; was GOTG Vol 2 successful in its musical decisions?
What did you think about the scenes interspersed in the closing credits? Are you looking forward to future Marvel escapades?
Some musical choices were a bit too on-the-nose for me (though not to the extreme like the ridiculously obvious Suicide Squad needle drops).
If there is one criticism of Marvel films, it is that the villains are underdeveloped and one-note - what did you think of the villainy here?
If you read comics, hardly any villains were super-compelling from their outset. I thought the tone with Ego was a bit off, but as a villain concept it was awesome.
How did the movie reflect the comic book universe? Do you feel it was faithful to the imaginary universe we grew up with in the Bronze Age?
No but I am not 11 years old anymore so it doesn't bother me.
What would you have liked to see more or less of in the film?
Less songs...less over the top action. That's about it.
In general was the acting, script, action, dialogue, and plot up to your expectations? How do you rank this compared to other Marvel cinematic offerings?
A tad disappointed. Quill's character and Pratt's performance fell kinda flat for me.
Yoyo
Well, both my wife and I loved it. Right from the start, with ELO and dancing Baby Groot, the movie seemed determined to have fun with itself, and it did so. It was good to see the further development of several characters; I particularly was glad to see Yondu get such attention.
Loads of new 'faces' showed up: seeing Martinex (hey partner,I thought of you when he showed up, wondered if you were excited to see your namesake onscreen) and Charlie 27 was very welcome. The scene with Stan and the Watchers was positively inspired. Ego was pretty well done,and as david_b noted, the young Kurt Russell was quite well accomplished (almost creepily so). And there were some characters I wasn't familiar with (thinking of you, Taserface); obviously originating in the many late 80's/90s books I've not read). All told, there was enough historical Marvel in there to make this Bronze ager feel quite at home.
I liked this incarnation of Mantis; I've heard the occasional complaints about this portrayal but I had no problem in that regard. There were enough elements of the character I'd known from "Celestial Madonna" to satisfy me (and to trust in more revelation about her in a probable future screen appearance). One very minor disappointment: never heard her refer to herself as "This One"...
Soundtrack was excellent. Again, right from the start- that dancing Baby Groot made for one of the best movie opening sequences since "Raiders of the Lost Ark". And then "Mr. Blue Sky" came on the radio over the weekend (your'e right Doug, Sirius XM wasted no time picking up on this)- more smiles. And "My Sweet Lord" is wonderful to hear any time at any place. One question: in the trailers, we heard the Sweet performing "Fox on the Run"; don't recall actually hearing it in the film though. Did I just miss it?
Overall, a very enjoyable film, and one that takes a spot near the top of my list of MCU films. We don't buy many DVD's any more (scaling back on Stuff, just like with comics, books and everything else), but will most likely buy this one. I can't wait to see it again...
1.Did the movie expand on the first film or just mimic it; did it add to the overall Marvel Universe?
What Doug said. When I go see a sequel, I have 2 expectations I like to see met:1)Does it introduce anything new? 2)Is it nothing but a 2.5 hour commercial for the next installment? If it is, I feel a bit insulted.
Guardians 2 met those expectations and then some.
2.Did the film deliver on the humor and good will that was apparent in the first film?
Yes, I laughed out loud multiple times. I think "I'm Mary Poppins" may be my favorite line!
3.Were the new characters welcome additions to the group; do you feel you know the characters better now?
I think the new characters were okay, and I was glad to see Yondu given a little more depth. I was never crazy about Mantis, so I wasn't too disappointed in the changes to the character. I just glad she didn't say something like "this one likes Drax."
4.Was it repetitive or innovative? Did it live up to the hype and expectations.
The most difficult thing a sequel has to fight is it's ability/inability to live up to the "wow factor" of the first movie. I had low expectations for the first film, since these weren't "my" Guardians and Drax was certainly not my Drax.
But I thought Vol. 2 did a great job living up to the hype, I'd see it again.
5.Many other movies imitated the first GOTG film and started to rely on songs of the 70s for their soundtracks; was GOTG Vol 2 successful in its musical decisions?
What did you think about the scenes interspersed in the closing credits? Are you looking forward to future Marvel escapades?
I thought the songs were fine choices, especially 'My Sweet Lord', 'Surrender' and 'Mr. Blue Sky'. I was a bit disappointed that 'Fox On The Run' didn't appear in the movie.
And I laughed at Russell's spoken word rendition of 'Brandy', reminded me a bit of William Shatner!
6.If there is one criticism of Marvel films, it is that the villains are underdeveloped and one-note - what did you think of the villainy here?
A little underdeveloped, and I would've liked to have seen a bit of Thanos. But Ego's killing of Quill's mother and his mass killings certainly give the Guardians motivation to fight, and the audience motivation to hate him.
7.How did the movie reflect the comic book universe? Do you feel it was faithful to the imaginary universe we grew up with in the Bronze Age?
Not faithful to "my" versions of the characters at all, but I have different standards for movies than comics.
8.What would you have liked to see more or less of in the film?
If there's anything I didn't like, it's that they separated the team a bit too long for my liking. These characters work best when they're all in the same room/ship/battle whatever. That's my only real problem with an otherwise great sequel.
Just noticed that I didn't reference the after-credits scenes. Of course one stood out, and that's the revelation that Adam Warlock is coming soon. I am a bit confused by that, as I think many of us had decided that the Vision would be a surrogate for Warlock - similar origins for how the Vision was created in the MCU to Warlock's comic book rendition. And, that the Vision has an Infinity Stone on his noggin seemed to steer things in the "gonna replace that with this" sense of the character. But we shall see...
Loved the characters dancing on the sides as the credits rolled. Really fun!
Lastly, Peter Quill is going to go toe-to-toe with Thanos. I think we've all looked forward to Thor or the Hulk. But it's going to be Quill in the physical encounter.
Teen Groot was pretty good. Well-played scene.
Doug
I enjoyed it! Thought it was equal to the first movie. Good humour, good action, and emotionally touching by the end. The soundtrack was appropriate, although not as rockin' as the first one. Father and Son was a nice inclusion, and I had never really listened to the lyrics of Brandy until now.
I'd rank this and the first Guardians movie right up at the top for Marvel films. The others I liked: Deadpool, Avengers, Iron Man, Doctor Strange. I'm really looking forward to Thor 3 after seeing this trailer before Guardians!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7ayGFHGqeQ
Also want to see Wonder Woman.
Yep agreed with Garett, Thor 3 looks quite good, so does Dunkirk (another great preview...).
But, I'll probably stick to buying 'em all on Blu-ray. I'm preferring my home theatre to going out and my wife makes OUTSTANDING popcorn.
(Please forgive any typos in the following post).
Did the movie expand on the first film or just mimic it; did it add to the overall Marvel Universe?
I thought it expanded on the first film. It added a couple of new characters and explored the origins of Star Lord. However, I thought it was a very self-contained story and I don't think it really added too much to the overall Marvel Universe as a whole.
Did the film deliver on the humor and good will that was apparent in the first film?
Yes, but almost a little too much. I thought some of the humor and dialogue was a little forced, such as "I have famously huge turds". On that note, I thought they made Drax a little too much of a comedy relief character, and they already had Rocket for that role.
Were the new characters welcome additions to the group; do you feel you know the characters better now?
Yes on both counts. I loved Mantis and I thought Pom Klementieff delivered a stellar performance in the role. She was one of my favorite parts of the movie. And some of the returning characters got a bit of fleshing out, especially Star Lord and Yondu.
Was it repetitive or innovative? Did it live up to the hype and expectations?
It wasn't really repetitive but it was also not really innovative either. It was a decent sci-fi, superhero action movie with the usual overabundance of CGI special effects. Nothing we haven't seen before. But it was still interesting enough to not be boring. And for me NO it did not really live up to my expectations. I thought the plot was a bit thin, and really didn't expand too much on the previous movie. I just didn't think it was as good as the first GOTG film.
Many other movies imitated the first GOTG film and started to rely on songs of the 70s for their soundtracks; was GOTG Vol 2 successful in its musical decisions?
Again, I don't the songs were quite as good as they were in the first movie. But they were pretty good. I have no complaints there.
What did you think about the scenes interspersed in the closing credits? Are you looking forward to future Marvel escapades?
Not the best after-credits scenes I've ever seen (even though there were 5 of them). Only the one that hinted at the coming of Adam Warlock really got me excited for the next GOTG movie. I was really surprised there was no scene related to Thanos or the upcoming "Infinity War". It seems like oversight that they didn't show anything along those lines.
If there is one criticism of Marvel films, it is that the villains are underdeveloped and one-note - what did you think of the villainy here?
I actually thought he was kind bit one-note and his motivations were pretty weak and forced. I thought the main plot of him needing one of his offspring to help him generate enough power to replace everything in the universe with himself was extremely weak and contrived. And the whole "I had to kill your mother because I loved here too much." excuse was just kind of stupid. Especially when he told Peter about it. I thought Ego was supposed to be super smart. But that was just dumb.
How did the movie reflect the comic book universe? Do you feel it was faithful to the imaginary universe we grew up with in the Bronze Age?
It was OK. It was better than a lot of the superhero movies at keeping it "real". At least the GOTG movies don't take themselves too seriously and maintain a good sense of fun. Unlike a lot of the other comic book films (like Batman vs. Superman).
Continued from previous post.
What would you have liked to see more or less of in the film?
I'd like a little more plot and a lot less over-the-top CGI and blue screen stuff. Near the end it really started to look like a animated film or a video game.
In general was the acting, script, action, dialogue, and plot up to your expectations? How do you rank this compared to other Marvel cinematic offerings?
The casting and acting is really top-notch. I especially like Bradley Cooper's portrayal of Rocket Raccoon, and I thought Mantis was just spot on. Everyone else was great as well. The action was great, but relied a little too much on CGI. The script and plot were good, but the story was not as sweeping and epic as I thought it was going to be. This one definitely ranks in my Top10 of Marvel Movies. Somewhere around 6 or 7th.
I got a deeper look at the characters, but to me it didn't advanced much of the character development. It felt more like "a groovy day with the GotG". Yondus arc was nice too, but somehow I am relived that he died, because I always connect him with his "Walking Dead" role and that does not fit in the MCU. But this is my fault.
I liked the addition of Mantis (I am not familiar with the comic version) and the fact that Gamora and Nebula reconciled.
I liked the colors. I read that this is the first MCU movie with the new Red’s 8K WEAPON Camera. Someone analyzed the use of black color in MCU movies. He found that it is not really black, but actually a dark grey. I still have to analyze this on my computer, when I got the HD, but during the screening I really liked all the colors! So that was kind of innovativ...
Why Do Marvel's Movies Look Kind of Ugly? (video essay)
https://youtu.be/hpWYtXtmEFQ?t=351
I really like the use of "old" music, because it eases my transition to a time when I was younger and when I enjoyed Marvel comics as a kid or teenager. Also, I connect Marvel comics with a happy, optimistic time period. Long before things like climate change, globalization problems, global terrorism and so on became part of my life. Reading Marvel Comics sends me back to this optimistic time period. OK this is quite personal, I live in Germany and the 60s/70s were whitout problems here, whereas France and USA had the Vietnam war during that time period.
Villians are really a weak spot of the MCU. In GotG2 I never felt anxious about the cast (even though Youndus died in the end). It was just a fun movie and I watched it in the exact same groovy mood as Groot did in the beginning of the movie with his dance scene during the fight. So I could not take any enemy really "serious" in GotG2. But that is OK and no criticism.
How did the movie reflect the comic book universe? I can't answer that question, because I never read the orginal GotG comics. I also do not know the Mantis Comic version. My main knowlegde is actually about the Silver age... :(
I was surprised, about the FANTASTIC FOUR references that were included in the movie:
- The Watchers chatting with Stan Lee (is he also a Watcher?)
- The coocon of "Him" / Adam Warlock from FF #66 / #67
That caused some wild Internet speculation about a hidden deal between Fox and Disney about the FANTASTIC FOUR. Also the fact that Marvel allowed Fox to produce tv series with Marvel characters in 2016 may be a hint. And MCU Phase 4 has still some untitled movies in it. But, yeah, this is probably just wishful thinking.
Looking forward to Adam Warlock on the big screen!
I just hope they get a good actor.
I half expect to see Bruce Willis playing Galactus.
M.P.
OK here's my 2 cents -
1) Yes I believe the movie expanded on the previous one. In a good way, of course.
2) Yes, this film delivered big time on the humour, probably the most humour-filled out of all the MCU films, and that's saying a lot!
3) I kinda liked Mantis, as Doug said this ain't the Celestial Madonna that we all know from the comics, but if one separates the MCU from the comics, I don't mind.
4) The move was repetitive - in a good way. Hey, if you got to see a soccer match, you know what to expect, 11 guys running around trying to a kick a ball. Well, if you watch a GotG movie, you expect to see space battles, action and humour!
5) 70s soundtrack? Double thumbs up!
6) Yes, most MCU villains are one dimensional and one note, but that's because the movies are hero-centric. If you like your villains multifaceted, read some Doc Doom comics or the Secret Society of Super-villains!
7) IMO. the movies do NOT reflect the comicbook universe, at least not strictly. I would say rather that the MCU is inspired by the comicbooks. At its best, a good MCU movie will capture the spirit of the comic it was based on, despite character and plot changes. Once one realizes movies and comicbooks are two vastly different mediums, one tends to appreciate each medium more!
8) More cameos from Marvel characters! We got Howard the Duck, Aleta, Starhawk, Martinex and Charlie 27. I wold have liked to see Nikki and Vance Astro - MY GotG team! Would love to see more Badoon!
- Mike 'until it is revealed Stan Lee is really a Watcher' from Trinidad & Tobago.
Saw it last night, and loved it. I won't go into answering all the questions, but I'll address what I think is probably one of the more important ones, i.e., how the Marvel movies reflect or correspond to the comic book universe of our youth: obviously the characters and stories often diverge quite a bit, but what they pretty much all get right (they nail it, in fact) is the spirit, the fun, of our favorite comics from '60s, '70s and '80s.
What I specifically like about the two Guardian movies is that they are basically comedies; I saw it with a friend, and we were both laughing through the whole thing (and man, given some of the stuff I've had to deal with earlier this year, I really needed that). And J.A., yes that Mary Poppins bit was hilarious, but to me nothing beats "Zardu Hasselfrau."
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