Martinex1: It is hard to believe we have hit our 20th Episode of Follow the Leader. Tuesdays have been particularly enjoyable as I never know what to expect.
Let's see who gets here first to get a topic rolling with a Bronze Age twist. Comics, creators, movies, books, music, television, and pop culture are all fair game. Let's see how long we can keep the conversation going.
Cheers all!
19 comments:
Martinex and I were discussing this topic a few days ago and he said it wasn't a bad thought (I have a nice one every now and then), so I'm going to throw it out there. It's pretty open-ended, so who knows how far it will go?
I was thinking about Silver Surfer (1968) #1 and how great an origin issue it is. But my next thought was that Silver Surfer #4 is among my very favorite comics of all time. That sent the ol' brain over to Fantastic Four #1, which is also a fun origin issue, complete with the Mole Man on the back end of the story. But... Darned if FF #5 with the intro. of Dr. Doom is a better, and maybe better-loved story (by me, anyway).
So here's the topic -- think of books that had nice intro./origin stories, but have an issue in that first year (or so - but keep it close) that really stands out to you. And, of course give us the "why" as food for further conversation.
Doug
We have discussed comic 'eras' a often, in particular the boundaries of Gold/Silver/Bronze etc.
But what about "game changers"? For instance, GS X-Men #1 did not mark a change of era but - arguably - was a game changer.
So what are your reflections on game changers in comics from a personal, creative or industry perspective?
Doug beat me to it! Feel free to delete the post above or save it for another day Marti/Red :)
Personally, I like both topics. I bid thee, discuss it all!
Doug
Good questions!
Just and aside that while doing Free Comic Book day Saturday, I noticed that Marvel is still reprinting some key XMen books for $1 each. So, I picked up the GS X-Men #1, not that I haven't read it before. But for the emotional high of rereading it again (as a comic!), not digging into a long box, not possibly damaging my original copy and knocking if down from fair to poor condition somehow... Best $1 I spent in a while!
The only game-changer I could think of is the first year of New Teen Titans.
The initial issue was so-so, but once the Trigon storyline started in the first few issues along with the Terminator.., the title was immediately elevated to something more than the dismal mid-70s revival, in my humble opinion.
Interesting thought that occurs to me regarding G-S X-Men #1: For those of you who bought it off the stands, was it a game-changer immediately? My first issue was #95, followed by #96 and then 100-on. I would say I found it to be exciting and different.
I also wonder if, for most fans, the game-changer-within-a-game-changer wasn't #108, when Byrne took over the penciling?
Doug
Hi,
The game changer for me was Luke Cage Hero for Hire on so many levels: Luke was from the ghetto, his source of powers seemed more plausible, his villains seemed more plausible (OK – not Doc Doom but the others…) Just seemed like “every man’s hero.”
So at C2E2, a few weeks ago, I bought Luke Cage “Power Man” #21 from 1974 where he fights Powerman the villain. If one wants to open a time capsule, read the letters pages! Folks complaining about his ghetto language / that the ghetto language has been cleaned up; that he doesn’t fight real villains / that he’s fighting real villains. The editor is a bit testy defending the decision to move Luke from his roots to Power Man. Powerman is selling enough to go monthly again, so tuff kaka the editor says!
I mean, people complaining that they can’t understand “you motherless freakin’ piece of scum!” Seriously???
I would guess that Luke was a game changer on various levels at Marvel. And 45 years later he has his own Netflix series!
I thought of another game changer for me. Prior to the Origins of Marvel Comics series of trades (Son of..., Bring on the Bad Guys, the Superhero Women, etc.), I had always (well, since I was 7; "now" I was 10) turned up my nose at reprints. But with the advent of those chunky tomes all of Marvel history was beginning to be revealed to me. And I just ate up Stan's commentary, which I also did each month on the Bullpen Bulletins page. So "Origins" began what has now basically been a lifelong love of old comic book stories.
Doug
1. For Doug's question: I think that Amazing Spider-Man #1 was a great issue (not his origin) but still a solid #1. But I think that ASM #3 was when the book really started hitting it's stride with the introduction of Doc Ock.
2. For Colin's question: I think that one of the biggest "Game Changers" in comics history was the death of Gwen Stacy in ASM #121-122. It marked one of the first times that a major character really died "for real" in a mainstream comic. It would have been the DC equivalent of Lois Lane dying.
Regarding Doug's question, I think issue #12 of Alpha Flight overshadows #1. To spend the first dozen issues skilfully building a team with the intention to *spoiler* kill off the team leader in the twelfth issue was radical for the time. It was also skilfully done - Byrne gave us just enough in those twelve issues to really care about the characters. Their grief was our grief.
It was the high point of the series to be sure. Byrne left soon after - I guess he felt he had accomplished his mission but the sharp drop off was immediately noticeable. I guess that's the tricky thing about giving a creator carte blanche at the initial run of a title. They go away and then no one else can find a voice and purpose for the book even existing.
I'm on a bit of an Ostrander Suicide Squad kick lately, and that immediately sprang to mind for question #1.
While the 1st issue was a nice set-up, the 2nd issue is when we see the team in full-on murderous action against the Jihad, and was a shocking glimpse of just what a super-villain team book is going to look like. One almost wishes they'd started off with a double-sized premiere, 'cause that battle would've hooked a lot of readers who didn't stick around after issue 1.
The first game-changer I thought of was Alan Moore's Swamp Thing #21, "Anatomy Lesson", an obvious game-changer for the book, and soon for the general tone and craft of DC and then comic books in general.
It occurs to me, I'm not sure if either of those comics qualify as Bronze Age. When did that officially start? My understanding was it began with Gwen Stacy's death and ended pretty much with dark reinvention of the genre with stuff like Crisis and Watchmen. In which case, maybe Suicide Squad doesn't count (but I'll shout out to it anyway!).
-david p.
I agree with William on Spidey; that Doc Ock issue is a classic. Avengers comes to mind too, with Cap's unfreezing in #4 overshadowing issue #1. For DC, I'm not sure; maybe Infinity Inc? Some later issues in the first year were more exciting than #1, at least to me.
I'm not sure about game-changers ... with 20/20 hindsight you could probably go year-by-year and find something that's technically a game-changer.
I'm a huge Defenders fan, and as great as the first few issues were, I felt the title didn't really kick into high gear until Valkrie, and a bit later Nighthawk, showed up.
When Gerber came on board, he brilliantly used a revolving cast of sometimes-Defenders, like Luke Cage and the female Red Guardian, playing their personalities off each other. Kraft was great at it too.
M.P.
I will say this about that:
I think the first big game changer was finding Cap frozen in the block of ice. Cap has become the "face" of the Avengers. More so than any other character, Cap is not only the heart of the team but the de facto leader in any situation. A master of strategy and tactics, he's also instructed most members in boxing, hand to hand combat and combat judo. "Hit 'em high, hit 'em low"!!!
Death in comics? Was Gwen Stacy's death the big game changer? In Spidey's book, we had already had Capt Stacy's death, a man who died knowing Peter was Spider-Man. Uncle Ben's death, who left Aunt May and Peter in a never ending struggle for money. Not only did he leave Peter with THE MOTTO but the eternal struggle. What's the point of being a hero if you can't provide for the ones you love. What hero before Parker struggled for money? Stan made Parker one of "us"! In my opinion, Gwen's death wasn't so much the "game changer" but Peter's inability to save her. The hero failed... In fact, in the original version, there's the "SNAP" when his webbing takes hold. Did Peter's actions directly lead to Gwen's death? "Game Changer"!!!
Just a question, in terms of game changers, first book to have a child? First book to deal with the dissolution of a marriage? Were these events within comicdom "game changers"?
Right turn!!! For me personally, I missed Giant Size X-Men 1. I bought GS X-Men 2, fell in love with the art!!! That led me to X-Men 94. Great jumping on point. The old team leaving, the new team taking over. All those Avengers issues prepped me for a roster change. By the by, no, I did not keep my issues. I ended up selling them for a dollar an issue to a friend of mine. C'est la vie...
(And with the early dawn
Moving right along, I couldn't buy an eye-full of sleep
And in the aching night under satellites, I was not received
Built with stolen parts, a telephone in my heart, someone get me a priest to put my mind to bed
This ringing in my head, is this a cure or is this a disease?
Nail in my head, from my creator
You gave me life, now show me how to live
Nail in my head, from my creator
You gave me life, now show me how to live
And in the after birth, on the quiet earth, let the stains remind you, you thought you made a man
You better think again, before my role defines you
Nail in my head, from my creator
You gave me life, now show me how to live
Nail in my head, from my creator
You gave me life, now show me how to live
And in your waiting hands, I will land, and roll out of my skin
And in your final hours I will stand, ready to begin?
Ready to begin? ready to begin? ready to begin?
Nail in my head, from my creator
You gave me life, now show me how to live
Nail in my head, from my creator
You gave me life, now show me how to live
Show me how to live, show me how to live
Show me how to live, show me how to live).
PS: Elon Musk launches Neuralink, the new human-computer interface. The robot is me and I am the robot. I and the robot are one. If you have seen me, you've seen the robot!!!
Great topics, Doug and Colin!
Hmmmmm.... Amazing Spider-Man and Avengers were the first that came to my mind, so I bow to the well-spoken commenters above! Nonetheless, I will add one title to the mix: Conan the Barbarian. The first couple issues were good, and a departure from Marvel's other publications. But Barry Windsor-Smith was just getting warmed up. Within a few issues, the art had made huge strides. Even by issue four, "The Tower of the Elephant", a progression could be seen. And boy, what lay ahead was incredible.
A game changer: I was one of those who picked up GS X-Men 1 off the racks. I knew it was a big deal at the time, but didn't know just how big a deal. Shoulda kept a copy (I had two: the one I bought new, and one I bought at a con to be signed by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum). As for another game changer: how about Daredevil 158, the first Frank Miller issue? It was quite a departure, and those next couple years were quite different from what came before...
i thought Daredevil limped along in the very beginning. Some readers liked the Wally Wood issues and the intro of the Purole Man early on but I thought it did not start taking form until Matt donned the red suit and fought Namor.
Purple Man.
How did Murdoch know that suit was red?
M.P.
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