So today we look primarily at Nighthawk and Moon Knight. (And a little later we will include a few more of the mirror entities if you would like to comment on those as well).
Kyle Richmond has a storied career starting as an enemy of the Avengers and pawn of the Grandmaster as a member of the Squadron Sinister. Another version of Richmond was the leader of the heroic but misguided Squadron Supreme. The Sinister one turned good, changed costumes and joined the Defenders. Richmond was a wealthy industrialist in both worlds and actually was the President on the Supreme's planet. In both versions, he is extremely athletic but even moreso at night. Got that?
Marc Spector has many personalities. He is a rich entrepreneur and a cab driver and a mercenary. Oh, and he is Moon Knight. He first appeared in a couple of issues of Werewolf by Night, as a silver-weaponed hired assassin. His most respected run may be under the pencils of Bill Sienkiewicz. In a later series he revealed his Egyptian mystic background as the resurrected Fist of Khonshu and his powers increased under the light of the moon. In the dark of night, he hunts the thugs and villains that endanger the city.
So which do you prefer? They have both lived in the Marvel universe for decades. Moon Knight has had a few series, and Nighthawk has mainly been a team player. Did they ever evolve past their seeming DC inspiration? Do you have any episodes to recommend? How about their look; what do you think about their design?
Since we're in the midst of a long weekend, don't stop there - what do you think about the Shroud, or the Black Fox from the Lost Generation, or even Daredevil? Were they also knockoffs of Batman or did they have enough of their own character beats to earn them their own stature? All Batman descendants are open for discussion - so let the comparisons fly. Who is the best? Who is the worst? Why was Batman such a significant influence on comic characters? And recommend the best stories please.
But let's get started with the colorful high flying swashbuckler and the silver-and-black mystery man.
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| Shroud |
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| Daredevil |
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| Black Fox |
10 comments:
I always preferred Moon Knight. I thought Nighthawk was kind of under-written, if you know what I mean. I think Nighthawk (and the other Squadron Sinister) were meant to be an in-joke by Roy Thomas, so nobody knew what to do with them later.
Moon Knight was cool; he always reminded me of a cross between Batman and DD for some reason. Some of his later storylines got repetitive and heavy-handed, though, especially all the "multiple personality" stuff.
Mike Wilson
I like Nighthawk better, even though I'll admit, the initial run of Moon Knight stories in his solo series that I recall reading were really quite good, while as far as I know Nighthawk doesn't really have any notable solo stories. But I just like the Nighthawk character better, and he was really a key member of the Defenders for quite a while. Also, if we can count the "Earth 2" Nighthawk (i.e., the guy in Squadron Supreme), he was very well utilized in Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme limited series.
I guess these two characters didn't spark much interest in our group. I've been a fan of the Squadron Sinister since their debut in Avengers 69 and 70. And I followed Nighthawk through his appearance in Daredevil and then his conversion to good in the Defenders. I've actually liked all of his costume variations but do prefer his pirate boots over the other type. Some folks like his navy blue, red and gold costume better ( and I do like it) but I also enjoy the powder blue and brown silver-age inspired version with the hawk beak. I thought Kyle Richmond was interesting because he was fairly hapless and despite having all of his wealth struggled with being a leader and an A list hero. I don't think Marvel truly ever rectified his villainous past with his Defenders role. I know it was addressed when he joined up, but I never felt the dichotomy was truly explored. That angle might have distinguished him a bit - being a greedy and more self-absorbed hero. I thought his team-up one shot with the Thing in Two-In-One was good.
Like Edo, I did like the "Earth 2" guy. And the Squadron Supreme's team-up with the Avengers and battle with Brainchild in Avengers 85-86 is one of my favorites. I have mixed feelings about the Squadron Supreme maxi-series, and perhaps we will explore that someday here.
Regarding Moon Knight, I only followed his first series and felt the later "Fist of Khonshu" series was not very good and added some mystical elements that Moon Knight didn't need. The first series had some interesting elements, but he really needed a villain that was more complex than Bushmaster. I also thought his West Coast Avengers appearances were weak - and he really did not work as a team player. I did however like this character's costume design.
Regarding others, I actually felt like Daredevil was the most Batman like - particularly under Frank Miller's hand, DD was dark and brooding. He protected Hell's Kitchen in much the same way I felt Batman looked over Gotham City. Although that is now an iconic take, it seemed like a leap that was a strange fit for Matt Murdock (in my mind).
I hope some of next week's posts spark some fun as we head toward the holidays. Cheers all! And thanks for reading.
Between the two, I'd give the nod to Nighthawk. He provided some interesting storylines, particularly in Steve Gerber's Defenders when he 'lost his head'. As for Moon Knight, I never read very many of his appearances. I do recall having some of the Sienkewicz issues, but the character just seemed to derivative of Bats for my tastes. Love the two illustrations you show us, Martinex1- Moon Knight, and then Neal Adams' reply via Batman. Weren't those originally from the Comics Journal?
Oh, and Black Fox- Never heard of him; is he any relation to the Fox who appeared in Amazing Spider-Man during the mid and late 80's?
Oh, as for the other guys, I really like the Shroud, and wish he had been used more. It would have been cool seeing him in a nice noirish mini-series if nothing else.
Also, since you mentioned Lost Generation - man, I really, really, really wish that series would get collected into a nice tpb or HC volume or something...
Edo, some people frown on Marvel's Lost Generation. It had some weaknesses but I really liked that series. Hard to go wrong with Byrne and Stern.
Redartz - the two foxes are unrelated. The one in ASM is the notorious thief, the other is a hero doctor who emerged after WWII fighting crime and vampires. He was wealthy and had gadgets similar to Batman including the "Foxhole"' his hideout. He was driven not by his parents death but by the love of his life being murdered by Nocturne a vampire.
In his early days in the Defenders, Nighthawk was not a cookie-cutter type super-hero character (say that five times real fast) he had a real personality. He was, besides being a brave and decent man, a short-tempered jerk, particularly after Doc Strange took a powder and he felt like it fell on him to lead the Defenders.
That's why I kinda liked him. He was always pretty close to blowing his stack and who could blame him? Having your brain taken out and plopped in a bowl will just plain rattle some folks.
M.P.
I gotta go with Nighthawk. I always loved his costume when I was a kid. And I loved him in the Defenders. And he's in my Top 10 most wanted Marvel Legends figures as well.
I always liked the look of Moon Knight, and the idea Moon Knight as well, but I never cared for the whole "multiple personalities" aspect of his character. It used to really bug me when I was a kid, and kept MK from becoming as much of a favorite of mine as he would have otherwise.
Personally, I prefer Nighthawk, from his original incarnation in that powder blue costume right up to his joining the Defenders, and yeah, his costume revamp is one of the best in the Bronze Age. Moon Knight? I really wasn't too much invested in his character, so for me ol' beaknose is it!
In my opinion, the appeal of Batman and associated derivative heroes stems from their symbolism; bats, birds of prey, and any creatures of the night have fascinated people for many years. So, when you have a superhero based on any of these things then they will capture your imagination.
I've mentioned this before on Twitter, but I've always been amused by the fact that Batman is (arguably) DC's most popular character despite literally not having any superpowers. I also think this is why he's so popular - most people can't relate to someone like Superman who is invulnerable to all injury, or can fly into a sun and not even get a tan, but a normal (albeit well-trained) human being in a Batsuit? Bring on those punks in Gotham City!
- Mike 'Hulk like beak-nose!' from Trinidad & Tobago.
I'd seen the drawing of Moon Knight pushing Batman out of the way, but I hadn't seen the Neal Adams/Batman response till now. Fun!
I like Moon Knight best. Loved his first series by Moench and Sienkiewicz. I liked that he had a girlfriend who knew his identities, and also some friends at the cafe who helped him out and knew his secret. He seemed hipper than Batman in the early '80s. I liked his Egyptian origin, and the villains were unusual but not as silly as the Penguin. You can see the progress of Sienkiewicz's art from the early tales in the Hulk mag, up to the experiments in the late issues of his first series. It doesn't make much sense to wear white at night, but if you think of it more like a silvery moon look, it's better.
I didn't read much of Moon Knight's later series, although I did check out the Huston/Finch run about 10 years ago. Disappointing! Instead of charmingly eccentric with his multiple identities, the character comes across as crazy and pathetic. Finch is good with poster-type splashes, but doesn't have Sienkiewicz's skills or storytelling ability.
Nighthawk has an eye-catching costume, but after that doesn't seem as interesting.
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