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| Benedict Cumberbatch as Dr. Strange |
Martinex1: Here we are with our first installment of "Chew the Fat," our open discussion section of the Back in the Bronze Age blog.
This weekend we will be talking about the new Doctor Strange movie that opened in the U.S. this week. Did you see it? What are your thoughts? Did it live up to the Lee - Ditko concept? How was Benedict Cumberbatch in the lead role? Did it meet the standards set by previous films in the Marvel cinematic universe?
Redartz: Based only upon the previews, this looks like a winner. So much of Dr. Strange's appeal has arisen from the ornately rendered scenes, diaphanous spells and weird dimensions he encounters. How effectively will the bizarre, mystical worlds visualized by Ditko and Colan be imagined on the big screen? Tell us your take...
Keep it SPOILER FREE folks, but feel free to give your overall impression. We will be back later to speak in depth, but what did you think?
20 comments:
My dilemma: I have a number of Asian-American friends & acquaintances who are staunchly boycotting this film, regardless of how good it might be otherwise, because of the effective YellowFacing of a MAJOR Asian character (Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One). And these are some major comics/gamer/geeky fan-folk, too. And as much as I love nearly everything I've seen and heard about this film-- heck, I flippin' ADORE Tilda Swinton in almost ANYTHING; thought she was a sole bright spot in CONSTANTINE-- this single, Corporate-Hollywood-As-Usual element has really taken some of the wind out of the sails of my enthusiasm. . .
And that's so unfortunate. 'Cause man, it sounds like they've nailed soooo much of the rest of this adaptation. . .
HB
On an entirely different note--
Wow, LOVE the fact that Wendigo, there, is your little mascot for "Chew the Fat"--! Ha!
HB
I think I will be waiting for streaming. The reviews seemed mixed, and my evaluation of the trailers is that Marvel movies have really settled on a formula, and it is really too bad. I want these to be good movies (they could be good movies), but as you guys probably already know I tend to have ambivalent feelings about most franchise superhero films.
Anyway, Dr. Strange has long been low on my list of favorite superheroes. So far down that he is one of my least favorites if his appearance is not as part of the Defenders.
As for what HB bought up above, I agree about how unfortunate this is. While if I were more excited about the film I'd go see it despite that, I still think their whitewashing of the role of the Ancient One using the excuse of wanting to avoid caricatured stereotypes to then deprive an Asian actor a role when historically they are under-represented in positive roles is a sign of that lack of creativity I mentioned above. Surely there must have been some way to re-imagine the Ancient One AND keep him or her Asian,
Hiya,
Saw it, liked it, give it a solid B+.
This isn't a slam at anybody, but I've gotten real tired over the complaints of 'whitewashing' the Ancient One, mostly by people who had no idea who Doctor Strange was or even cared before the casting of Tilda Swinton in the role.
Especially since I haven't heard any of the same people crying out against the casting of Chiwetel Ejiofor as Karl Mordo.
Seeya,
pfgavigan
The casting of Chiwetel Ejiofor as Karl Mordo would only be a problem is there were a historical lack of good roles for white guys.
I don't think the context of caring/knowing about Marvel Comics trumps the context of the history of film and other media.
Just saw it, as in I just walked out of the theater about an hour and a half ago. (This is unusual for me, as I usually see these movies with a delay of weeks if not months, but lately I've been going to them with a buddy from work who likes to catch them right away).
Anyway, as I just commented at Atomic Junk Shop (and hey, why isn't that site on the "similar species" sidebar?), I really enjoyed it. The characters are all really engaging, the story was solid and flowed nicely, there was a lot of nice Easter eggs for the fans and some nice humorous touches, and the sorcery sequences were visually stunning (usually I'm indifferent to the whole 3-D thing, and generally avoid it, but in this case it truly added to the experience).
Going into this, I was also troubled by the casting of Swinton as the Ancient One - probably my absolute favorite member of Strange's support cast - for a variety of reasons, but as I understand it, the thinking behind this was not exclusively an attempt to avoid caricatured stereotypes of mystical Asians. There were reportedly political considerations as well, as one of the commenters at Atomic Junk Shop also pointed out: casting the character as a Tibetan, which he or she should be, would have apparently raised the ire of the Chinese government and probably led to an official boycott of the movie in that country, meaning an immense loss of revenue. However, that latter political aspect is, I think, still speculation at this point - I don't believe anyone at Marvel/Disney would be willing to confirm that.
Anyway, Swinton, like Cumberbatch for that matter (about whom I also had misgivings), really sold it. Also, this is a really different take on Mordo - in all the comics I've read, he's just one-dimensionally nefarious, while here he's a very complex and, in fact, quite likeable character. The movie version of Wong, by the way, is completely awesome.
I would count this one among the better Marvel films - although to be honest, there's few of them that I didn't like. Seeing these movies is like my childhood dreams coming true, so I'm rather charitably disposed toward them from the get-go...
I won't be seeing this for a while (no cinemas in my town), but the reviews I've seen so far are somewhat mixed but leaning toward positive (io9 said the movie was "more style than substance", then added "...thank God!")
As for the whitewashing stuff, I get where the complaints are coming from. As Edo mentioned, they may have been trying to avoid pissing off the Chinese gov't by getting rid of any references to Tibet, but there might have been a better way than using a white actress; somebody like Bai Ling or even Nao Nagasawa (yes, I know she's Japanese :)) would've worked great without whitewashing the character.
I have no problem with the Ancient One being played by a woman--he/she is supposed to be a mystical being, beyond earthly concepts like gender; theoretically, you could say he/she is also beyond a concept like race to excuse the whitewashing, but I think there's too much history in play to use that as an argument.
Just my opinion, not anything I expect people to take as gospel :)
Mike Wilson
Mark me down as very happy that movies are bringing new generations to the characters we all love, but I don't cross the street to watch them.
Having first read Doctor Strange in pocket book reprints of Ditko, if he isn't shown as murkily, dirtily psychedelic I'm not so interested. Of those that have seen the film, does it capture the sheer strangeness of Ditko?
WEN-DI-GO!!!
I had one of those Doc Strange pocket book reprints when I was a kid, and I read and reread it till it fell apart! Sure wish I still had it! (sigh)
I don't have a problem with a black guy playing Mordo, and I think making him a good guy in this first outing was a shrewd move, but is he still a baron from Transylvania?
Is his back story different?
Anyway, I'm looking forward to this movie.
M.P.
I agree with Osvaldo's assessment of the character. Never had much interest outside the Defenders, and I'm not too enthused about any role he might have in the Infinity War films.
Anyway, I was to have seen the picture tonight with our oldest, but he ended up being unable to come home. Not sure when I'll catch it.
Doug
Thank you all for commenting. I am scheduled to see it tomorrow and I will report back with my thoughts about the film and the visualization of the magic. I've tried to stay relatively free of script and plot point previews, so I will see if it meets my imagination. I am hoping for some Ditko-like wackiness.
Demons of Denak!
Hmm gonna watch it tomorrow, so of course I haven't seen it yet.
Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One? Personally, I'm gonna reserve my judgement until I see the film and her performance 'cause I think it will be premature and presumptuous to say anything without having seen it. However, I do think the reason for casting her instead of an old Asian man has more to do with financial reasons rather than culturally correct reasons like Edo said - Disney probably doesn't want to alienate their potentially lucrative Chinese audience by including a Tibetan character. The almighty buck trumps (egads, did I really use that word!?) all other considerations even in movies.
Still, regardless of the reviews, it'll still be a blast to see my favourite Master of the Mystic Arts on the big screen. Unlike Dr O. (not to be confused with Dr No) the Sorcerer Supreme has been high on my list of favourite superheroes for many years. What's not to like about a guy with a cool moustache, groovy cloak of levitation, a swanky Eye of Aggamotto, and the power to summon the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak if the Hulk shows up uninvited to a tea party? :)
- Mike 'Asian dude with the mystical ability to see his low financial status' from Trinidad & Tobago.
My wife and I saw it this evening. Went to the 3-d version, based on Edo's comments. And I'm glad we did- both of us enjoyed it thoroughly. I had flashbacks to the first time I saw "2001- A Space Odyssey"(wouldn't surprise me if some folks caught this film with a little 'chemical enhancement'). Won't go into much detail now, but the effects were impressive.
The casting worked fine in my opinion, Benedict Cumberbatch fit the role of Stephen Strange to a T. The soundtrack was solid, and as Edo noted, there were numerous tidbits for the comic fans. Overall I had only a couple minor gripes with the movie, which I will wait until later to detail. To sum up: I'm a Dr. Strange fan, and found the film a fine version with many familiar elements.
Continuing a thought on the casting discussion-- I liked the idea of the Ancient One being a woman so much that it never occurred to me to think of what Asian MEN they had passed over for the role! I immediately started thinking about all the great female Asian actors available. . . sorry fellas-!
I've also started wondering if there aren't some more well-known, higher-echelon Marvel heroes that could be gender-switched for the MCU? Again, this might ruffle feathers, but it would be totally worth it to me to see a larger pool of strong, capable super-women on the screen. The source material itself is so woefully short that I'd support seeing someone like, say, Nighthawk be a woman. Or Nova, maybe? Hunh-- heck, how 'bout Black Bolt?
HB
I saw the movie on Saturday afternoon. Benedict Cumberbatch made the role his own and Chiwetel Ejiofor was a likeable Mordo, whose reasons for going astray were perfectly understandable. Some humorous scenes and dialogue elicited laughs from the audience and the dazzling special effects brought to mind the phantasmagorical artwork by Ditko. Not a perfect film; and as pointed out, Marvel has developed a formula to their films, but certainly a solid entry. Even viewers who are not a Dr. Strange fan will find the film appealing.
I saw the movie today and I did enjoy it quite a bit. Sure it followed the origin pattern, but I didn't find it overly formulaic at all. The setting and motivations were distinct. I thought the supporting characters were excellent - Wong, Mordo, Christine - were all great on screen. I thought Benedict Cumberbatch was solid and made Strange different than other heroes on screen. The film contained enough weirdness and psychedelics to make that satisfying. And it was great to hear the names of the spells voiced, see the Eye of Agamotto, and witness the reimagining of the cloak. And when I saw the Sanctum Sanctorum on Bleeker Street, it made me smile. All good. For a character's first movie, I think it captured the spirit of the source material while making Strange a bit more relatable. And it set up a whole new dimension for Marvel action.
We will have a full discussion in order to review the characters, plot points, effects, action and specifics - allowing for full Spoilers - some time over the coming days.
I saw the movie today and I did enjoy it quite a bit. Sure it followed the origin pattern, but I didn't find it overly formulaic at all. The setting and motivations were distinct. I thought the supporting characters were excellent - Wong, Mordo, Christine - were all great on screen. I thought Benedict Cumberbatch was solid and made Strange different than other heroes on screen. The film contained enough weirdness and psychedelics to make that satisfying. And it was great to hear the names of the spells voiced, see the Eye of Agamotto, and witness the reimagining of the cloak. And when I saw the Sanctum Sanctorum on Bleeker Street, it made me smile. All good. For a character's first movie, I think it captured the spirit of the source material while making Strange a bit more relatable. And it set up a whole new dimension for Marvel action.
We will have a full discussion in order to review the characters, plot points, effects, action and specifics - allowing for full Spoilers - some time over the coming days.
My extended family (8 of us) had a blast watching Dr. Strange last night. It was faithful to the origin story, everyone looked and (mostly) acted like they should. The special effects were amazingly mind-blowing and trippy as all get out--as they needed to be--Ditko's art came to life on that screen, baby! Fun. Cool. Definitely gonna buy it on DVD!
Wanted to see it on Friday but ended up having to work overtime. May not get to see this until Veteran's Day. Such is the life of the working man, that's what I am, that's why they call me....but I digress.
Does it bother me the Ancient One isn't Asian? I would say "Yes". But then again, it bothers me more that the Ancient One doesn't appear all that ancient. It also bothered me that the Avengers didn't include Ant-Man or the Wasp. (On a tangent, just recently watched Civil War again and the scene with Bucky and Sam in the Beetle is hilarious). (I was so going to throw in an "!" but I low keyed it).
(You're welcome). (What's with the "()")?
So anyway, as I mentioned to HB long ago, we all pick our battles and hills on which we die. Would I want to see more diversity or more veracity in the MCU? I know I miss my Marvel but I'm old. I miss my toes......
(Sometimes I wanna leave you
Sometimes I wanna go
Right back where I came from
Back where I belong
But it never lasts for too long
Always goes away
Well I still don't look for reasons
That's much too hard these days
Why worry about the rain?
Why worry about the problem?
Honey Century City's got everything covered
Well your mama gave you lovin'
Mama held you near
Baby mama can't do nothin'
Honey mama just ain't here
And you can pretend all you want to
But that won't work no more
No you can't run back to daddy
Yeah you tried that once before
Why worry about your father?
Why worry about your mother?
Honey Century City's got everything covered
We're gonna live in Century City
Go ahead and give in, Century City
Like modern men, modern girls
We're gonna live in the modern world
We're gonna live in Century City
Go ahead and give in, Century City
Like modern men, modern girls
We're gonna live in the modern world
Sometimes I get discouraged
Sometimes I feel so down
Sometimes I get so worried
But I don't know what about
But it works out in the long run
Always goes away
And I've come now to accept it
It's a reoccurring phase
Don't worry about the rain
Don't worry about the problem
Honey Century City's got everything covered
We're gonna live in Century City
We're gonna live in Century City
We're gonna live in Century City
We're gonna live in Century City).
PS: Robots that sell Frozen Yogurt!?! Get out of here......
I liked the movie, and appreciated that unlike the tv movie of the '70s, it kept the key elements of Dr. Strange's origin story -- the arrogant, selfish surgeon who suffers an accident that leaves him unable to ply his trade anymore and out of desperation seeks an outlandish cure which leads him to learning mystic arts and changing his character for the better. And I am a fan of Ditko's run on Dr. Strange, as well as the runs by Englehart (especially with Brunner onboard) and by Stern. Much of the post-Ditko Silver Age Dr. Strange (which I've read in the Essential collection) didn't do much for me, although I loved Colan's art. Back to the movie, the only part that didn't gel for me was the depiction of Dormammu. But even that didn't really take away from my overall enjoyment of the film.
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