Redartz: Usually when we open these 'panel discussions', we are talking about art and artists. Today we're going to look instead at one of the Bronze Age's most unique writers: Steve Gerber. Most readers know him from his extensive work for Marvel, but he also did work for DC and some Indies as well. He even had a second career life in tv animation, including the creation of "Thundarr, the Barbarian".
Gerber's writing style was often esoteric, quirky, and deeply personal. This was one of the things which attracted me to his work; beginning with his classic writing on Marvel's "Man-Thing". About the same time (this was actually the time at which I first started collecting comics and was eagerly sampling anything in four color print) I discovered his "Defenders" and "Daredevil", and he became one of my top favorite writers.
When Gerber wrote a comic, it was jam-packed. It was sure to be a good half hour read, at any rate. Frequently he included text pages in his stories, which probably was a break for the artists.
Dr. Demento on the radio was enthralled by such oddities. I mentioned above Gerber's penchant for introspection; it was this tendency that made "Omega" so appealing to me. And the same was true for another of Gerber's psychological studies, "The Kid's Night Out" in Giant Size Man-Thing 4. Gerber seemed at the time to be writing specifically to me (yes, I was a hopeless nerd, but a harmless one).
And aside from weirdness and navel-contemplation, Gerber could write some darned fine stories. His "Night of the Living Dead" was excellent. His "Phantom Zone" miniseries for DC was quite interesting. And we haven't even touched on "Howard the Duck" or "Guardians of the Galaxy".
So here's a few more images from 'Gerber's Greatest Hits'. While you pore over them, you can consider your own thoughts about the man and his work. Were you a fan? Gerber's work didn't appeal to everyone, granted. If you were, what were your favorites? What titles would you have liked to see him tackle? Which artists seemed to mesh best with his unique vision? Comment away...
27 comments:
I never really got Gerber's stuff; a little too "post-modern" (or "weird for the sake of weird") for me. Or maybe he was a genius and I'm just an idiot who completely missed the point!
That being said, my favourite Gerber line was from Howard the Duck when he was running for President and described the American cultural scene (of 1976) as "one long dateless Saturday night" ... or something like that.
I just missed the boat on Gerber's earlier work at Marvel, and played catch-up later - I read most of his Defenders run and his Guardians of the Galaxy some time in the early '80s, and then his full runs on Man-Thing and Howard the Duck for the first time when I bought the Essential phonebooks.
I like his work, but not uncritically. My favorites are Defenders and, esp., Man-Thing (in particular, issue #s 9-10, which I call the 'Dawg story' - I'm sure I've mentioned that before). With Howard, I honestly think it was one of those "you had to read it at the time" situations; a lot of the humor is kind of dated, or the satirical aspects just land, well, I'll be polite and say differently now.
I like some of his work for DC, like the Phantom Zone mini you mentioned, and the last few issues of the revived Mr. Miracle. Of his later work, I liked his Superman Elseworlds series Last Son of Earth/Last Stand on Krypton, and the Nevada mini-series for Vertigo.
Hey Hey! It's been a while.
I guess the subject of Steve Gerber drew me back. ;)
Anyway, I have written a lot of about Gerber's work. He is the kind of writer that I cannot say I like but whose work is interesting enough to always give me something to chew on. Unfortunately, too often it seems kind of mean-spirited and relies on self-awareness as an excuse for being something of an asshole. This is certainly the case with Howard the Duck, which does not hold up.
For my money Omega the Unknown is his best work - but his Man-Thing (snicker) is really good, too. Defenders is a mixed bag.
Anyway, here are links to the first posts in both series about Gerber work over on The Middle Spaces:
If It WAUGHs Like a Duck
Alpha & Omega
Gerber was the best comic book writer of the 70s (not counting Jack Kirby, natch)... but he was inconsistent, and often didn't deliver what he was capable of.
Agree with Osvaldo on Omega the Unknown. The first few issues - which I only read a few years ago, so its not like nostalgia comes into it - were really good, and stand comparison with the work of the better writers of the 80s, which is no small achievement for a newstand era comic.
But it went off the rails very quickly. Gerber didn't seem to have the discipline of a Moore or Gaiman to be able to sustain his work at any length (which may well be down to the different standards and editorial pressures of the 70s of course).
And thats right about Howard the Duck too. If it seemed better back in the day its because when I was ten it was possible to believe Gerber was wise in the ways in the world, but on the re-read he comes across as what the British would call a pub bore.
His "satire" seemed to boil down to just moaning about stuff he personally didn't like rather than any kind of attempt at a critique of the society he lived in. And he's not funny.
On the plus side, I very much enjoyed the Defenders. Yeah, its a superhero comic, but I liked Gerber's characterization of the Hulk, Val, and the Red Guardian, and his willingness to go with crazy ideas. Nighthawk's brain, the Bozos, the elf, and all that.
The only real disappointment was the Sons of the Serpent storyline, which was padded, overlong, and had a dodgy twist (*spoiler alert* a black guy was behind a white supremacist group? Really?)
-sean
PS Apologies for going on a bit, but I just wanted to add that Giant-Size Man-Thing (no sniggering please) #3 is possibly my favourite single Marvel issue of the 70s.
Man-Thing goes sword & sorcery in a distinctively Gerberesque manner, with absolutely phenomenal artwork by the mighty Alfredo Alcala.
-sean
That GS Man Thing #4 was one of my early comics, so I engulfed every page many times over in my childhood. Will always have a soft spot for it.
Defenders was a comic I read regularly during Gerber's run, and like some have said, some stories were better than others. I thought GS Defenders #4 was a touching story.
Hiya,
Gerber, for me, was always a mixed bag. I'd give his books a look, but not necessarily purchase them. I think I could always tell what books he was genuinely interested in and which ones were paying the rent. And even if I was intrigued by Howard or Omega, it didn't mean that I would stay with them. I had dropped both several issues before Gerbers departure from either book.
He also bothered me in another way, even before the Shooter controversy (or storm in a teacup as I call it) he could make his contempt for other creatives really apparent. When he tied up the Bloodstone story that was the back up feature for the black and white Hulk magazine he did it in such a way as to make clear his opinion of the material produced prior to his arrival.
And to be honest, his Shanna the She-Devil story with Tony DeZuniga creeped me out. Ask me and I will tell you, but I'd rather not.
I would like to say that, strangely enough, I believe one of his best collaborators was Jim Mooney, whose matter of fact artwork really anchored Gerbers' plots and prose. Those last few Man-Things were some of my favorites and even more appreciated than the Mayerik and Ploog efforts. Sometimes an Artist can seem like the perfect match for the material, yet somehow get lost within it.
I'll probably be saying a bit more on this subject, but to even get this far has prolonged a bout of sleep deprivation that I would like to end as soon as possible.
Seeya,
pfgavigan
Red - I've come back here to read your posting for the 3rd time today! Great job on the posting! And I love your respectful, positive way of interacting with us.
Mike W- that quote you mentioned sure sounds familiar. Wish I could remember from where. I did get a kick out of Howard's presidential run, probably should check back into that issue.
Edo- that "Dawg" tale was a great one, albeit tough on a dog lover. And thanks for spotlighting those Elseworlds and Superman tales, must check them out.
Dr. O- wow, thanks for stopping by! Those first several Omega's were mighty heavy reading, and even now stand out for all that Gerber and Mary Skrenes dealt with therein. Sure wish they could have finished that series. Might have been a good graphic novel, actually. And thanks for sharing your links. I highly recommend anyone here to visit "Middle Spaces" and peruse those posts.
Sean- glad you liked Gerber's Defenders craziness. The Bozos and the Headmen were wonderfully weird, and really seemed perfect for Marvel's 'non-team'.
Pfg- thanks for your thoughts on Gerber artists. Mooney did seem to mesh well, 'grounding' him a bit as you imply. Those Omega stories from Hell's Kitchen are a perfect example. And those late Man-Thing tales too. Somehow Mooney's artistic 'sweetness ' made the Scavenger even creepier.
Charlie- thanks, always glad to 'see'you. And we do try to keep it friendly here!
It looks like my take on Steve Gerber lines up with a lot of our respected cohorts', here. (*Whew!* Validation-!) When I was in, say, 7th grade through high school I think I tended to confuse his self-indulgences and unconventionality with artistic "depth"-- especially if I didn't exactly understand it. And I truly lacked a critical eye at that point, so the fact that he was writing a title that I generally liked and bought, THAT'S what made me assume it must be good. And I do agree he had a darned nice, deft touch with dialog and characterization-- which (for my tastes) is job #1 in a comic book writer.
But---
That all-text-with-splash-panel issue of HOWARD THE DUCK (because of Dreaded Deadline Doom) is what finally broke me. Mind you, it's nearly 40 years since I last read it-- but I found it painful. An exercise in self-indulgence trying to pass itself off as being disarmingly irreverent & anti-establishment & unconventional & satirically brilliant--- it was none of those things. And that book itself had become a bit of a slog, tbh.
He's kinda the epitome of the Writer who is in love with his perception of his own brilliance a lot of the time. And I think what was saving him a LOT (as mentioned a couple of times above) was indeed the abilities of the artists he was paired with. The Headmen/Bozos arc in the DEFENDERS (which also really had me wondering if I even "liked" the book by the end), was absolutely saved by Sal B's straightforward, honest, just-reportin'-the-facts pencils. It gave the arc a life-saving dose of legitimacy. And I have similar feelings about Gene Colan's (great) work on HTD-- pretty much film noir with an anthropomorphic duck in the middle that kept it grounded enough to ensure engagement.
I will confess to being a bit over-touchy on this topic (regarding writers) at the moment, as I'm currently in the orbit of a number of young(ish) up&coming DC playwrights, and bless 'em, a lot of them do fall into the cliche' of going to extremes to be UNconventional (ironic, no?). "Punctuation is an artificial construct that we don't use in speech-- and it gets in the way of true communication." "Clarity is over-rated." "I don't want to audience to know that the play is over." And paragraphs of stage directions that become poems about what a character imagines they are seeing in their mind's eye. . . Mind you, I genuinely adore most of these folks-- and they are genuinely good writers under all that-- they really just need to shed the habits of self-indulgence and apply some practical discipline, I think.
For one thing-- NEVER write 'WAY TOO LONG blog responses. . .
(BAHHH-HAHAHAHAHAAAA!)
HB
Hiya,
Hey Humanbelly!
Practical discipline . . . Writers . . .
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . .
That's a good one. Have any about actors respecting the prop master?
Gonna go listen to some Helen Reddy and Mac Davis now.
Seeya,
pfgaviga
I enjoyed a lot of the Bronze Age Steve Gerber books, most of which you've all done a good job of remembering above. However, a major book for me was Marvel Two-in-One, starring my favorite hero, The Thing. Steve seemed to understand both Ben's inner and outer dialog, including the humor and the angst. He also provided an interesting cast of characters beyond the FF and allowed the books to flow from team-up story to team-up story in a logical manner. MTiO was a great introductory book into the Marvel Universe and the Thing in particular. (This book is a great example of how the lack of thought balloons in current comics hurts being able to get to know the character of our heroes.)
I thought Gerber was an interesting, uneven writer. He was writing Daredevil when I first began buying comics regularly, and I was struck by how WEIRD the stories could be. DD’s adventures were usually very “street level” but Gerber would occasionally throw him into huge psychedelic / cosmic / conspiracy storylines that made my head spin. I just re-read the first bunch of his MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE stories this past weekend, and they’re all over the place. Not nearly as bizarre as his Defenders run, but pretty gonzo.
Howard the Duck — yyyeeeah, I loved those early stories, but soon got tired of his curmudgeonly schtick. Those first few Omega the Unknown stories did nothing for me back in the day. Surprised to see that title getting so much love here, makes me think I should maybe re-visit.
Horror-wise, I liked his Son of Satan, Morbius and Lilith stories, though they’re played pretty “straight” for the most part. His Simon Garth / Zombie stories with Pablo Marcos are pretty nihilistic but also really damn good — probably the most consistently atmospheric and effective series in Marvel’s b/w horror line.
The Man-Thing stuff still holds up for me today, for the most part. The Foolkiller, the crazy longshoreman Viking guy versus the Alice Cooper lookalike, the Citrusville storyline with the super-creepy Scavenger, Gerber Avatar Richard Rory on the run with a jailbait cutie, etc etc. The entire run with Ploog is terrific — The Laughing Dead, the “Dawg” stories, the Fountain of Youth 2-parter, etc — great stuff, all of it.
“The Kid’s Night Out” from ENORMOUS SCHWANZSTUCKER # 4 feels pretty heavy-handed in 2020, but boy, it knocked the wind outta me back in 1975.
— b.t.
Oh! And I’m delighted that Marvel will FINALLY be completing their “MAN-THING BY STEVE GERBER COMPLETE COLLECTION” in March (its only been five years since the last volume). Also happy that it looks like they’re skipping over the mostly pointless Claremont / Fleisher / Perlin run.
- b.t.
Redartz: Yeah, I looked it up, that "big dateless Saturday night" quote is from HTD #8, the election issue. It's the half-text, half-art page with the "transcript" of Howard's speech ... maybe the same page that HB was referring to?
Disneymarvel, good call on the initial run of Marvel 2-in-1. Gerber wrote some really good and fun stories there (who can forget that story in which the Thing and Ghost Rider are disguised as two of the Magi?).
And b.t., yes, Tales of the Zombie was another series in which he was handing in some pretty solid work.
No love for Gerber's Kiss mag for Marvel then?
Interesting that no-one's commented much on Gerber after his 70s heyday, despite the inclusion of Stewart the Rat and Destroyer Duck in the original post.
You'd expect his work to have benefitted from the less restrictive environment of independent publishers and direct market imprints like Epic and Vertigo not subject to the Comics Code, but what I've read has been disappointing.
-sean
Gerber’s writing and concepts on the KISS book seemed like typical Gerber weirdness, but just didn’t seem very ‘KISS’. I don’t know if that makes any sense, but that’s how it felt to me at the time.
- b.t.
Hiya,
Just wanted to state that after rereading what I had posted earlier I came to the conclusion that I had not made clear that I really had enjoyed a lot of what Gerber produced. Just . . . well, not necessarily as he would have so.
I think that I really liked the more conventional stories that he turned out rather than the more personal work that I do believe were more important to him. I was so disappointed after he left Marvel Two In One and was actually very, very angry when I learned that The Defenders had been taken away from him to satisfy the contractual obligations that Marvel had towards an editor in chief who lasted all of six weeks in the job.
As for his post Marvel career, I am afraid that it never resonated with me. For all that he railed against the restrictions imposed upon him by the main publishers I think they truly benefited him by giving him a means of pushing the envelop without going beyond the pale.
Thanks for posting this subject, it's been thought provoking.
Seeya
pfgavigan
To be honest b.t., I only ever read that issue of Howard the Duck they turned up in. Which seemed weird if only because Kiss were hardly known in the UK, and had zero cultural presence in the 70s. If it wasn't for the Bullpen Bulletins hyping up their senses-shattering arrival in the Marvel universe I wouldn't have had any idea who they were.
The idea of a whole mag strikes me as a bit at odd, as Kiss seem like just the kind of thing Gerber would have moaned about.
-sean
Sean, and others I guess: yep, I've read both Destroyer Duck (had the entire series at one point) and Stewart the Rat. I really didn't like either very much. I don't even recall much about the story in Stewart, I just remember my impression was that it seemed like all of the worse aspects of Howard the Duck ramped to 11. Destroyer Duck was similarly disappointing - it just came across as too caustic. However warranted the Gerber and Kirby's bitterness at Marvel may have been, it didn't make for very good stories.
Edo, to be fair to Gerber, it wasn't just him. I found the work of his contemporaries in the emerging direct market - Englehart, McGregor, people like that - to be something of a disappointing retread of their earlier stuff too.
Apart from Howard Chaykin, its hard to think of any mainstream comic book figure who made their name before the end of the 70s that really took advantage of the creative possibilities the (then) new publishing environment offered.
-sean
Well, an obvious one who comes to mind is Mike Grell, with Starslayer, and then Sable.
Ah well, Grell isn't my cup of tea so that wouldn't occur to me.
But you're quite right of course Edo - I wouldn't say he pushed the envelope like Chaykin did with American Flagg, but he definitely made full use of the new opportunities open to writers and artists.
As a broad generalization though, I think its fair to say Gerber wasn't unusual among his peers in taking a back seat while newer talents moved things forward in the 80s. Perhaps thats not surprising, as I believe he mainly worked in tv by then.
Its funny to think of someone with Gerber's views on artistic control and editorial restriction writing Saturday morning cartoons...
-sean
The only UK hit for Kiss was "Crazy, Crazy Nights" in 1987.
Colin J-- Although it's a total topic-tangent, that's HILARIOUS that KISS is so less-highly-regarded in Great Britain. They hit BIG here when I was, like 13 years old--- at exactly the same time I was being swept up in a life-altering discovery of the Beatles. And good grief. . . the fact that youths would go to the mat for that circus act over the lads from Liverpool ("Dude, KISS is the GREATEST BAND OF ALL TIME! The Beatles SUCK!!") left me a head-shaking curmudgeon before I'd even kissed a girl for the first time. . .
Other than the extremely atypical "BETH", I don't think they had a single hit that I would go "Oh, great song!" when it would pop up on the ol' AM radio. . .
They had a TV movie, iirc, and were basically just guest stars at best. No on-camera charisma at all except when performing onstage.
Credit where it's due, though-- AWESOME abilities with the extreme-platform footwear. . .
HB
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