Thursday, April 5, 2018

Rank and File: Comic Book Movie Villains!


Martinex1: There is an old saying that the "villain makes the hero."   The bigger the threat, the more heroic all of the counter actions seem.   The more dramatic, relatable (yet dastardly) the antagonist, the more grand the hero becomes.

I believe that to be true in film as well.  The better action and suspense movies have the most understandable but violent threats.  The more evil the bad guy, the more fun the movie.


When it comes to movies in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, I tend to be so enamored by what they have put on screen that I am not always as critical when I first view the film.  After a second or third look, however, I start to pick apart the plots and devices and particularly the villainy of each piece.


So let's rank and file the Marvel villains in movies to date.  I am  interested in the Marvel films for sure, but feel free to throw in DC's nemesis, etc.  No need to rank them all either; give us your top three and bottom three if you like.  And some explanation stirs the conversation so share as you see fit.


Let's start with my bottom 3, as I think it will help outline my mindset.

Villain minus 1) Baron Zemo:  If you follow Captain America or Avengers on a regular basis, you would know that Zemo is a mastermind to be reckoned with.  He is a schemer and a madman with little respect for life.  And to top it all off, his plans usually make sense and have a great chance of success. In fact he led the Masters of Evil through the greatest siege of Avengers mansion ever, nearly decimating the heroes in their own home.   On screen, Zemo's plan is very convoluted and relies on a lot of coincidences for all of the factors to come into play; it really falls apart on multiple viewings.  He also does not have the gravitas or employ the motivational speeches that make him so formidable in the comics.  Last but not least, if your mask is not stuck to your face with Adhesive X - you are just not a Zemo.  I wanted to love the character, but he ended up seeming like a mid-range James Bond villain not a Marvel megalomaniac.

Villain minus 2) Ronan the Accuser.  Unlike my knowledge of Zemo,  I did not know or remember a lot of backstory for Ronan before I went to see Guardians of the Galaxy.  So the character was a relatively blank slate.  What I realized, despite loving the movie, is that Ronan added very little and to this day I don't have a clear idea of what he was trying to achieve other than to get the gem and take out all of his enemies.   Was it too simple and specific a motivation?  Was it just unrelatable?  I found my mind wandering every time he was on screen yacking about power or vengeance or something.   Supposedly he is going to get a second chance in the Captain Marvel movie (which jumps back in time to the Kree-Skrull War!)  They really need to flesh out Ronan; perhaps we will see something more interesting.


Villain  minus 3) Yellowjacket.  I enjoyed the Ant-Man movie and rank it in my top 5 Marvel films.   And Cross definitely had a plot and  motivation behind his schemes.   But I have to ask, "Why Yellowjacket?"   Why take a hero with a long history that could build dramatically on the Pym character, and turn him into a one-off villain?  Classic character change, classic costume, and classic series of storylines all go down the drain (at least until a reboot).  If I didn't know so much about the comic book character, I probably would have liked this guy more.

And now my top 3:

3) Whiplash:  Okay, okay... I expect the comments to be loaded with both derision and well-wishes for my deteriorating mind, but I found Whiplash very entertaining.  Mickey Rourke portrayed the guy as an over-the-top madman. Yes, I wanted the classic Whiplash costume, but once I got past that, this guy was 100% Silver Age Cold War craziness wrapped up in a layer of scenery-chewing bravado.  Some villains have to be over the top.  The confidence in this character made him an adequate threat to Iron Man.  He also played nicely off of his Justin Hammer counterpart who was a mealy mouthed cowardly conniver with a mean streak.  I think Iron Man II is worth a second look.

2)  (Tie) The Asguardians Loki and Hela: The Thor movies have really given us some outstanding villains in the run.  Loki is portrayed as the trickster he always was in the comics; although a sarcastic schemer, there was always something redemptive about him.  And Hela blew it away in Ragnarok;  if anything her costume finally brought a bit of the Kirby madness to the silver screen.

1) Robert Redford: I have no recollection of what his name was in the second Captain America flick, but his character was by far the most sinister and evil of the bunch.   That movie leads my picks for Marvel recommendations, and aside from the tremendous action his villainy made it the most intriguing.

Some honorable and dishonorable mentions:  I liked Ego but it would have been nice to see him as "the living planet" more; I kept waiting for Kurt Russell to really be the planet - that was a missed opportunity.  Ultron lost out in my eyes because much of his story had to be rushed; I think Ultron is something that could have evolved over a longer period of time. And ultimately his world domination play is boring and overused.   I liked the Mandarin, and I still think there is another twist coming with that character; I don't think we are supposed to believe all that was revealed.  Crossbones was great; I thought he died too soon as they did a nice job of developing his "badness" and he seemed able and willing to go toe-to-toe with Cap.  Killmonger and Iron Monger were okay; to me they served as viable opposites to the heroes' points of view.



So what do you think?  How do you rank any or all of the cinematic villains?  This does not have to be Marvel specific (I am just more familiar with those characters).  Voice your opinion and let's get the debate rolling.  Cheers!




11 comments:

Killraven said...

So many of Marvel's "big baddies" fell flat, Ultron, Red Skull, Mandarin, Zemo, Dormmamu. These are some of the biggest names of villain comicdom and they just did not live up to it.
On the other hand one big name did. Loki. Just perfect in Thor and the Avengers.

Others I thought did a fine job; Vulture and Shocker from Spider-Man.
Batroc from Winter Soldier (although needed the 'stache).
Crossbones, I agree Martinex, with all you said about him.
Killmonger from Black Panther.
And Hela. She was the serious part of the Ragnarok comedy. She was perfect.

I'm still hoping Klaw comes back, great potential there.

William said...

Very interesting topic. But can we add Marvel villains from the Sony Cinematic Marvel Universe to the mix?

If you think about it, the Sony Marvel movies got a lot right, especially in the villains category. (They got a lot wrong too) But what they did get right was pretty good.

Spider-Man movies THE GOOD:

1. DOC OCK (Spider-Man 2) - Alfred Molina did an awesome job in both look and character bringing Spidey's greatest nemesis to life on the big screen.

2. GREEN GOBLIN (Spider-Man 1) - While the Goblin costume was a total misstep, they did Norman Osborn right and his personality and character motivations were pretty much spot on.

3. SANDMAN (Spider-Man 3) - While Spider-Man 3 was arguably the worst Spider-Man movie, I thought that Sandman was pretty awesome (at least in appearance). It was like Flint Marko jumped out of the comics and onto the screen.

4. THE LIZARD (Spider-Man reboot) - In the Spider-Man reboot, they did a pretty decent job with the Lizard. He looked pretty cool anyway. However that was about the only thing they got even close to being right in the reboots.

THE BAD:

1. GREEN GOBLIN (Amazing Spider-Man reboot) - Possibly the worst movie adaptation of any Marvel villain to date. His origin was rushed, he didn't look or act anything like his comic counterpart, and he wasn't even the right Osborn to become the first GG. A total fail in every respect.

2. ELECTRO (Amazing Spider-Man reboot) - Possibly the second worst adaptation of any Marvel villain to date. The movie version of Electro had absolutely no similarity to the comic character in either look (and I don't mean because he was black) or motivation, or personality, or really even his powers. Another total fail!

3. VENOM (Spider-Man 3) - Topher Grace as Eddie Brock… uuhh no, I don't think so. (Nuff said).

4. HARRY as THE NEW GOBLIN (Spider-Man 3) - This wasn't the worst thing, but it could have been much better.

Anonymous said...


Finally saw Thor: Ragnarok, and I think the Thor movies do particularly faithful and impressive versions of his villains. Thor, Hela, the Executioner (certainly got the visual right)...even the CGI stuff looks great: the Destroyer, Surtur, and I loved Fenris (seeing Fenris fight the Hulk was the greatest "only in comics" match-up that's never been in a comic!).

My other favourites are Molina's Doc Ock, Hugo Weaving as the Red Skull, and I gotta mention Kingpin on the Daredevil TV show.

A shame Fantastic Four movies don't do villains so well: Dr. Doom was disappointing, and I'm still not sure what to make of Galactus-as-formless-cloud.

X-Men make interesting movie versions of the villains, but they're pretty far removed from the comics versions so I find them hard to rank. The only real dud in my opinion was Juggernaut (no way should he ever be the SHORTEST person in the group!).

-david p.

Doug said...

So much of a villain's success or failure, for me at least, is in the initial look of the character followed closely (of course) by the execution in the film.

Wins in the looks dept. would include the Red Skull, the Destroyer, Loki, Hela, the Mandarin, Crossbones, Thanos, and Ronan.

Big losses for looks: the aforementioned Zemo, the Green Goblin(s), Whiplash, Yellowjacket (totally agree with Martinex's assessment) and the Abomination.

I agree with William's comment that the first Spidey movie got the Osborn portion of the Goblin correct, and overall I really like Doc Ock but wished they could have stuck him in some green coveralls or something at least for a scene. But Spider-Man 2 remains an overall triumph to me. I agree, too, with William's assessment of the Sandman portrayal.

On the DC side of things, Tim Burton's/Jack Nicholson's Joker was well done, but I did not at all care for the portrayals of the villains throughout the remainder of the films in that franchise. People say we need to see Dr. Doom done right on screen; I'd add "How hard would it be to do Catwoman right?" Heath Ledger's Joker was well done in the grim-n-gritty vein, and I found him greatly unnerving whenever he was onscreen. But the look was not what I'd expected.

Looking forward to Avengers: Infinity War at the end of the month, although I admittedly have no knowledge of the four minions Thanos will employ against our heroes.

Doug

Redartz said...

Overall I pretty much follow the consensus here. Loki, Hela, Klaw, Ock all pretty impressive.

David p- great call on Kingpin; terrific portrayal. In the television vein, I'd add a few more winners: "Gotham"s Penguin and Selina Kyle, Hugo Strange- all very good. Flash does well with Grodd, Reverse Flash, and many others- the CW shows are doing great things...

Mike Wilson said...

Yeah, I can agree on Doc Ock, Gobby, Vulture, Hela, and Loki especially. I also liked Nebula's arc in the two GotG films, where she started as a bad guy but turned into kind of an antihero after making peace with Gamora. I'm looking forward to Thanos, and Scorpion in the next Spidey movie.

For DC, the only movie villain that stands out is Ledger's joker, a performance so iconic that the guy who plays Jerome in Gotham seems to be aping it. I like Gotham's villains in general; the fact that they're unhinged makes them interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing where Barbara goes after the latest twist. I'll agree that most of the CW baddies are cool, except a few that get overused (like Anatoly in Arrow ... he's betrayed Oliver so many times, I don't know why Ollie doesn't just kill him and get it over with).

Charlie Horse 47 said...

I admit to having limited recall of all the movies as I've only seen them once.

But my recollection is that I dug Doc Ock like others wrote above.

I also dug Loki in Avengers but I am not sure if it was simply because of the one scenw in which he was so pompous, tell Hulk to unhand him since he is a god, and the Hulk thrashing him like an Orca playing with a baby seal?

Lastly, I really have to say I have enjoyed Gotham and their character development of villains and heroes. Granted the show has had dozens of hours to do this, as compared to 2 for a typical movie, but they seem to have taken advantage of that modality which is a plus of us! Likewise with Daredevil. Kingpin is well done indeed!

Savitar said...

I think Zemo is highly underrated. Yes, he had very little in common with his comic persona but his overall plan and goal in Civil War was very smart. Instead of trying to take out the team head-on, he used their own hidden secrets to force the team apart from the inside. That's masterful thinking and manipulation and in most ways, he actually succeeded! It's subtle villainy but a form that I think works perfectly within the confines of the MCU.

Also, a big shout out for Klaw. Having just watched BP, Andy Serkis gives a wonderful inspired performance. His limited appearances throughout the last few films have been terrific, poking fun at the 'seriousness' of all these heroes and situations while adding some comic flair.

Dr. O said...

I like Mandarin - which was the only good part of Iron Man 3.

Killmonger was great, too - as was Hela.

Edo Bosnar said...

Best part of Iron Man 3 was when he saved the lives of all those people who were sucked out of that airplane's fuselage...

Dr. O said...

Second best part. It might have been best if we had not already seen essentially the entire scene in the trailer/commercials. :)

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