Martinex1: It is Follow The Leader time! We will take any topic suggested and throw it out to the masses for consideration and conversation. Expect this approach on many Tuesdays throughout the year, so be ready. The challenge is to keep the conversation rolling and going, so keep in mind that sidebars, tangents, and non sequiturs are welcome!
So here are the general rules:
1) Whoever gets here first (or even second) post a topic starter in the comments that others can jump on and discuss for the day; supply as little or as much detail as necessary to get the ball rolling.
3) The range of possible subjects is broad - comics, movies, music, television, fiction, hobbies, queries, etc. Try to have the topic touch some aspect of Bronze Age nostalgia if possible.
4) Keep it clean and family friendly.
5) All others...follow the Leader! Your job is to keep the conversation rolling. (As I said - follow the topic wherever it takes you; a conversation started about comics may lead to comments on jazz for all we know)!
Note: There is one caveat... if Redartz or I notice that the suggested topic is something we already have in the pipeline, we will let you know and inform you of the projected date for that subject for discussion. That is just so we don't double up. Hey - great minds think alike, right?
We will be back later with our own comments on the topic!
14 comments:
Kirby's art in his Marvel return was uniformly awful. Blocky, thick lined and not fluid. Any ideas on what happened to him? Arthritis? Trigger finger?
Yoyo
Great ideas..., first off with Colin, I strongly preferred Michael and the Jacksons up until 'Thriller'..., it really fell off after that, in terms of my interest.
'Thriller's a fine album (was waaaaay overplayed but those of us through that period remember all the hoopla..), it was THE ALBUM until Joshua Tree and Graceland came around. But I strongly preferred 'Off the Wall', an early gem from the master producer, Quincy Jones.
As for Kirby's return, he was always well-handled by Joe Sinnott and Vinnie Colletta back in the FF/Thor heyday.., perhaps Jack had an attitude of 'Hands-off-my-work' when he returned..? Others here can attest with what they know better than I. Raw Jack (as I call the 70s work..) is great art, but not everyone's cuppa tea. I didn't like it at first, but now find myself collecting his CA&F work, and it was a relief from the Robbins stint.
I also like both Sinnott and Colletta inks on Jack quite a bit, perhaps more than some. It's sort of a Lennon-McCartney collaboration, rather than 'Vinnie's ruining Jack's layouts' argument.
Darn, I've had an idea for a topic I wanted to discuss for several days, but I forgot it was Tuesday and got here too late. Oh well, may be next week. Anyway, on the the topics at hand.
I've never been a really big Michael Jackson fan. His music (even the older stuff) was a little too poppy and bubble gum for my taste. However selections from "Thriller" were played endlessly on the radio when I was a kid, so it was impossible to ignore, and I have to admit that some of it grew on me a bit over time, but not enough to actually shell out money and buy the album.
I didn't like Kirby's later work (his DC stuff or his return to Marvel) as much as his original Silver-Age Marvel years. As his art evolved his figures became more angular and boxy. Another thing I noticed was that his shading sometimes tended to make everything look like metal, even cloth costumes. It was a little weird. But don't get me wrong, I still love the King.
Though I agree with many here that Kirby's Silver Age was more appealing than his Bronze Age art, I will say that I really enjoyed his dynamic Bronze Age Marvel covers for the FF, the Avengers and many others. Perhaps that was an Inker influence that made it better for me.
Like William, Jackson's music was always kind of peripheral to the music I listened to, but I also agree that it was pretty hard to avoid as both Jackson 5 hits and his later solo material saturated the radio waves back in the '70s and '80s. To answer the question, I guess I prefer his adult voice, as the songs of his I most like are a few from Off the Wall and Thriller albums (including "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough" - sorry Colin). Everything after that - meh.
As for Kirby's art in the '70s - well, while I appreciate Kirby as the creative force he was, I'm not the biggest fan of his art. So I can definitely agree that his work in the 1970s at both DC and especially at Marvel - with the possible exception of the initial issues of Jimmy Olsen, New Gods and Mr. Miracle - was not a high point for him. I actually think his work on roughly the first 6 issues of Captain Victory in the early 1980s, was much better than most of what he had done in the preceding decade.
no comment on Michael jackson (Thumper says "if you can't say something nice...")
I enjoy most of Kirby's stuff. I do recall as a kid not liking it as much, but have really grown fond of it and others like Gil Kane. I think some of my favorite books were the 70's Avengers where Kirby did the covers and George Perez did the interiors. I do think inkers make a huge difference. For example, without Terry Austin I don't think Byrne or Perez's pencils are as great.
Regarding Michael Jackson- his adult work is preferable, to my ears. "Thriller" just blew me away, loved " Off the Wall" and liked some of his later tunes as well. Perhaps it was the cumulative effect of his singing, dancing, songwriting and overall performance skills. I still rank "Thriller" as one of the greatest albums ever.
Kirby- joining the consensus, I felt his Silver Age work was stronger. His later rendering was very powerful and dramatic, but lost some of the subtleties his earlier work displayed. Not that subtlety was ever Kirby's hallmark, but his earlier work seemed to show greater variety of form, figure and expression.
Good topics, guys!
Hiya,
In regards to Mr. Jackson, while I was always aware of his music I never quite followed him. Although during the summer that Thriller came out it was impossible to get away from it as the only radio that we had in the scene shop was dialed to the campus radio station and it was on perpetual repeat.
As for Kirby, boy am I glad that this question came up today rather than a week ago. Because then I had just turned off a Kirby 'documentary' that gave him full credit for everything done at Marvel prior to his departure. I'm fond of Kirby, but his acolytes tendencies to exaggerate his contributions at Lee's expense really sets me off.
As for his artwork during his brief return to Marvel, if it seemed clunky and cartoonish it was his own fault. Even Royer had been instructed to be as faithful as possible to the original pencils that were of such a bombastic nature that variety of line was non existent. Without Sinnott and Colletta providing inks, except for the occasional cover, Giacoa, Royer and duBerry were utterly unable to lend any sensitivity to the work or even correct the more than occasional mistake.
Inkers are artists, not tracers.
Seeya,
pfgavigan
My observation on Jack Kirby is that there's little style change his first 25 years and then around 1967 or so he starts changing... and keeps changing such that around 1972 or so it starts to become a parody of itself anc no longer attractive. But from 67 to 72 it was undeniably wonderful.
Tangential to Michael Jackson, I grew up about 5 miles away from him in Gary, Indiana. Around 1970 Gary had a population of 175,000, today it is around 60,000. My dad worked at Inland Steel where Joe Jackson worked and 34,000 others. Today there's about 4,000 working there. Most other steel mills closed. Anyhow I get disgusted with national politics talking about manufacturing going overseas as if it's a newish problem. The vast majority went overseas 30 years ago creating this rust belt of Gary, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc. Sorry to interject that in this blog but sometimes you need to bent. Thanks for your understanding.
I can't get away the tragic arc of Jackson's life when considering his music. So no real opinion on that one I'm afraid.
Late Kirby...taken one way, by the 70s he had distilled his essence to the point of artistic purity. Taken another way, and as Charlie Horse 47 said, he had pushed his style into parody.
My view is that he fell into a couple of related traps in the 70s. One was to consider storytelling less important than visual and conceptual innovation. And the second was to insist on artistic independence to the point of self-indulgence.
None of this was to say his 70s work was all bad, or uninteresting. But to my mind it's like listening to Thom Yorke solo LPs after falling in love with Radiohead - i.e interesting but not compelling.
I think MJ was a better singer as a youth. As he got older, he focused more on the music and his voice was actually secondary to the groove on a lot of the songs. All the grunts and groans and asides were tedious to me, but what do I know......all the millions who bought his music must have liked it. I grew up listening to him with his brothers and enjoyed his solo albums, but I liked Off The Wall more than Thriller, and I actually liked the Jacksons' Destiny as much as I did Off The Wall.
I thought Kirby's 70's work for Marvel was a matter of inkers. I think Sinnott and Colletta's styles enhanced his work and brought out additional qualities. Seemed like the later inkers followed Kirby's pencils and made fewer "adjustments." Kirby and Lee's Silver Surfer graphic had Sinnott and I thought that was the King's best work at Marvel V2.
Post a Comment