Redartz: Hello everyone; ready for another round of "Follow the Leader"? I'm already looking forward to the fine conversation which your impending topic suggestions will create. But in the meantime, here's a little something to mentally chew over:
This past weekend I picked up (at one of those wonderful flea markets, of course) a copy of Marvel Super Heroes 14: the one that featured a special Spider-man story with art by Ross Andru and inks by Bill Everett. This was early 1968, quite a few years before Andru became a regular Spidey illustrator. Indeed, at that time Andru was still drawing Superman over at DC! Looking over the story, it definitely showed touches of the style that would become so familiar in the mid 70's. So it got me thinking, what other examples are there of artists who got an early taste of a character and only later became closely identified with them? Perhaps you can chime in on this too...
18 comments:
OK, here's my question to add to Red's:
It's the 50th anniversary of Monty Python - what are your opinions of the Monty Python TV show and films?
The very first one that springs to mind, IIRC, is that John Byrne had a brief stint as penciler on Fantastic Four during a period when the book was trying to find a longer-term artist (don't quite recall specific #'s)-- and like everyone else, he was inked by Joe Sinnott. And like everyone else, the art looked great and "right" under Joe's clean, clear "house" style.
Monty Python--- while I've always enjoyed them, their comedy has a worn a bit thin with me as I've gotten older. And the TV show-- like any sketch-based comedy show-- tended to have a generous helping of Misses (and/or "enh"s) mixed right in there with their immortal out-of-the-ballpark Hits. It could definitely err on the side of sometimes trying too hard or letting a segment go on a couple of bits too long-- particularly the animated sequences. We have the Complete Collection (of shows) on DVD, and we've never gotten all the way through it-- it does wear you out.
HB
Sticking with the FF and Joe Sinnott, Joe inked FF #5 with the first appearance of Doctor Doom. But he didn't return until FF #44 and stayed on to be the glue that held the artwork consistency together for many years to come.
I'd agree with HB above on Python. I love all the famous sketches, but like SNL after it, you have to wade through a lot of 'meh' to get to the greats. Individually, I love so much of what many of them went on to do. John Cleese and Eric Idle being to most visible through the years.
Re early tastes, John Romita Snr pencilled a few early issues of Daredevil (somewhere around #11-15) including a couple with Spider-Man guesting. They’ve long been thought to be a test to see whether he could be ready to replace Ditko if and when he blew up. From what I've seen of those DD issues, Romita's Spider-Man was far more Ditkoesque than the version that he first drew in ASM #39.
There's maybe also Romita Jnr's work in ASM in the early 200s which looks very different to his later work in the late 400s.
The one that always sticks in my mind is Sal Buscema drawing Incredible Hulk #124, during the early days of Herb Trimpe's run, a full five years before Sal took over as the strip's main artist.
As for Monty Python, I have to agree with others. The TV stuff's very patchy and, for the most part, hasn't stood the test of time. I haven't seen the movies in years, so couldn't currently pass judgement on them.
Yeah, the Monty Python movies have some funny moments but some terrible quarters of an hour;) No, I'm not one of those guys who can quote Holy Grail in its entirety ... I actually thought Meaning of Life was more consistently funny than Holy Grail; I hope that doesn't kill all my nerd cred.
As for the original question, the only thing that comes to mind is kind of the reverse of what Dangermash mentioned, when Frank Miller did those Sider-Man issues guest-starring Daredevil; I think it was basically a try-out to see how Miller handled DD ... or that's kinda how it worked out anyway.
Byrne's first run as FF penciler ran from issues 209 through 218, and then, in a sort of 'trial run,' he did both the story and pencils in issues 220-221.
Other examples: before his long and storied run on Thor in the 1980s, Walt Simonson did the pencils on about a dozen issues (#260-271, and Annual #7) in 1977/78. However, his work was heavily embellished by his inkers, mainly Tony de Zuniga, but also Chan and Sinnott in a few issues.
A few years before he had a long run as the artist on Green Lantern, starting in 1979 and going well into the 1980s, Joe Staton first drew a 10-page GL story in the 5-star Superhero Spectacular (officially DC Special Series #1) in 1977.
Monty Python? Love 'em.
Of all the people to overlook Sal's contribution to Incredible Hulk #124--- how could that person be The HumanBelly??? Wow. . . (okay, I was a little distracted--- had a smidge o' arthro knee surgery today. . . not at my sharpest). Steve's example is truly a stand-out IMO, though. I believe it was one of Sal's earliest penciling contributions-- and the influence of brother John is very, very much in evidence. . . in a very, very positive way. Jarring at the time for us Herb fans, of course, but I do like how that issue flows visually.
Of all things, the COLORING is out of whack-- wrong hair-colors and the like. And- I thiiiiink Sal may have been working over some of Herb's rough breakdowns, I read somewhere.
Good one Steve!
HB
Great job guys; I knew you'd come up with some early debuts. And Colin- excellent topic; love the Pythons. I'd agree with many that some of their material is better than other (which is true for anyone, of course). Back in the mid 70's, before video tapes were commonplace, I bought an LP of "Monty Python's Worst/Best". Kept it for years, and eventually converted it to mp3 the better to place it all on my tablet. Now I can hear "Argument Clinic" anytime, anywhere.
Disneymarvel- great call on Joe Sinnott. I'd forgotten he did FF5. Quite the debut issue.
Dangermash= yes, Romita's version of Spidey in those initial Daredevil appearances was more 'Ditkoesque'. Lots more webbing; as the Jazzy One took over later he sort of evened out the spacing...
Mike W- fear not about your cred; I agree with your take on "Holy Grail" and "Meaning of Life".
HB- hope your surgery went well! Did they provide you with a Hulk-green hospital gown? Anyway, your comment about Sal's early work being reminiscent of big brother John's is spot on. I noticed that in his early Avengers work. But it didn't take too long before his own style began emerging...
A kinda funny thing about Sal's early work is that it is SO CLEARLY influenced by his big brother John's style-- but I distinctly recall Sal saying in an interview (maybe in the 80's?) that, no, he never consciously used John's work as a guide at all. I think he cited their wide age difference as part of the reason. But-- golly, you read between the lines, and you can't help but pick up this heartwarming vibe of little kid brother kind of idolizing his successful (and brilliant) big older brother, and "being like him" without ever admitting that he was ever "being like him"--- 'cause that's how family dynamics work, right?
HB
(PS-- surgery went great; just now received an at-home Ice-Flow-Pack machine to accelerate healing process! Gonna be back at rehearsal much earlier than I hoped. . . I mean, expected. . . to be. . .heh)
On Sal Buscema's art and his influences, I'm sure he admired his big brother and learned from him (if not by direct tutoring, then by observation and osmosis), but it's always been my impression that he was more influenced by, or emulated, Jack Kirby.
Oh, yeah, HB: glad the surgery went well, but then again, I guess as long as they don't mess around with your (human) belly, it's all good... :P
Yep, no fat-cell removal, edo-- no matter how much I begged. . .
Now that you mention it, I can see the Kirby influence in Sal's work as well. I think the classic "Buscema Blast" panel is a direct descendant (heck, swipe even?) from Kirby's hyperbolic after-punch shots. (If you think about it-- any punch to the head strong enough to send someone airborne for 30 feet or so is gonna be fatal-- even for a LOT of super-types!) If anything, though, it looks like an "evolution" from Kirby's influence-- I do think Sal's figures have much more innate fluidity than Jack's (hmm-- a trait that was brother John's strength, as I recall---)
HB
Oh, yeah, HB, I'm not suggesting that Sal was aping Kirby or anything, just that he took his cues from Kirby's style. And I agree that his figure-work shows a greater fluidity than Kirby's did - that's one of several reasons why I like Sal's art far more.
I've hardly watched any of the Monty Python TV episodes but I do know some of the famous moments such as the dead parrot sketch and the Spanish inquisition. I've also seen 'Holy Grail' and 'Life Of Brian'.
In 1991 the song "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life" was a UK Top 5 hit - 12 years after it first appeared in Life Of Brian.
Prime-Minister Margaret Thatcher didn't know who or what Monty Python was - her speechwriter Michael Dobbs (who also wrote the original House Of Cards TV series in 1990) later claimed that Thatcher thought Monty Python was an actual person!
Ohhh Maggie--- really? Really???
I mean, I guess I'm not surprised. . .
HB
Well, when I first watched Monty Python's Flying Circus on PBS with my older brother at about the age of 9, I remember asking him which one of those guys was Monty Python.
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