Redartz: Hello, hello, hello! Tuesday has come once again, bringing us another workday, another day closer to Friday, and of course, another edition of "Follow the Leader". Which means you have another opportunity to ignite a maelstrom of debate and discussion on any topic of your choice, provided it pertains to our beloved Bronze Age. Open up those laptops, plug in those tablets and smartphones, and unveil our subject for the day!
You may ask, what have I been up to this week (or you may have no interest in that whatever, but there it is). My wife and I finally saw the recent "Captain Marvel" film, introducing Carol Danvers to the MCU. We both enjoyed it, and as always it was fun filling her in with all the comic minutae relating to the film. Glad we saw it before catching the forthcoming Avengers film. Otherwise, with Spring here, a lot of outside chores have taken up my non-work time, but I have managed to read a few comics - kind of on an Archie binge lately, but also read some Mike Fleisher Spectre and Lee/Buscema Fantastic Four. Anyone of you reading anything exciting?
The floor is now yours; salutations, everyone!
26 comments:
I recently heard that a prequel to the musical GREASE is being planned and last year there was a Han Solo prequel so are there any films, books, TV shows, songs, comics, famous characters etc that need a prequel? Or are prequels a terrible idea?
Just off the top of my head, a prequel to The Three Musketeers (one of my all-time favorite novels) showing some of the early adventures of Athos, Porthos, and Aramis and how they became friends would be cool. Unfortunately, I don't see any place fo d'Artagnan in such an offering. I'm sure more will pop into my head if I think about it. Still, overall, I don't think prequels are a good idea. For one thing, we kinda know what's going to happen (like with the Star Wars prequels) so that removes a lot of the suspense. Also, sometimes less it more. Going back to Star Wars, Boba Fett was better when he was mysterious and I didn't know that much about him.
Good Night Nurse Nellie-- Colin, your specific example there is, like, an INCEPTION-level of a bad-idea Russian doll. Fast-Money-Over-Content mentality contains Assorted-Franchise-Cash-Ins contains Prequels contains GREASE (A musical that's already had a long-forgotten & hilariously failed sequel). Usually, a bottom-line requirement for a prequel would be that you actually care enough about the presumably-complex characters that you'd want to witness that journey to complexity. Geeze-- they might as well do a prequel to SAVED BY THE BELL. . .
Generally, I don't care at all for prequels. The obvious problem is that you flippin' know where the story is going to end up in the long run. Regardless of how artful the journey is-- it's spoilered beyond recovery, y'know?
STAR WARS: Ep 1-3? I thoroughly disliked them, although I slogged through 'em out of a sense of duty and to please young HBLad at the time. (And then #3 was far more horrific than I wish I'd let him see at that age--).
YOUNG INDIANA JONES was a failed series 'way back, remember that?
I read THE HOBBIT before I tackled LORD OF THE RINGS in junior high, though--- and I have to say that I far preferred it to the latter, even though it was written after the trilogy. (Which I have never enjoyed nearly as much--)
I know that BETTER CALL SAUL has been doing very well as a BREAKING BAD prequel series-- but I don't think I can invest in it since I know the ultimate fate of MANY of its main characters.
And there's also the irresistible tendency for prequels to "wink" HEAVILY at elements and references that are common knowledge from the later source material. (YOUNG SHERLOCK HOLMES, f'rinstance--)
Nah-- don't love 'em, me---
HB
Hey, and solid discussion topic suggestion, btw!
HB
I'll just come out and take the extreme position. Yes, I think by and large, prequels are a terrible idea. I thought Han Solo wasn't bad (save for Ron Howard directing--seriously that chase at the beginning was laughable, I felt I could've just run up beside and shot Han in the face it was so slow) but did I need it? No.
I'll throw out my candidate for worst prequel/backstory fill-in, and that's Wolverine. I loved knowing that character only minimally, not even his real name, and now I've been deluged not only with his past, but also his future (Old Man Logan). I don't think anyone would profit to see a prequel to James Bond being an agent (parents dying, orphanage, grammar school stresses), but poor Wolvie's been worked to death. In these cases less truly is more.
I agree with you that most prequels are bad. But I think there could be a good prequel. I am thinking along the lines of "the Hobbit" and "Lord of the Rings" that Humanbelly mentioned.
What if, for example, we take the Star Wars universe and tell a story with no direct connection to characters already known. Maybe the time the Republic formed. So no Senat, no republic. More the first contact event between planetary races. So you have a prequel in term of the "Star Wars universe", but you do not tell a prequel on a personal basis.
Wasn't "Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" like that. All new characters. OK there was the direct connection to the Death Star I believe. But it felt like totally it's own story.
Similar to "The Hobbit". It centeres around Bilbo which is not such an important character in Lord of the Rings any more. And Gandalf is in both books an enigma.
Prequels, for the most part, are disappointing, unnecessary or a total waste of time. In my humble opinion.
Seems that copyright holders of popular
franchises are just milking a cash cow till it bleeds.
Rogue One was very enjoyable - the most enjoyable Star Wars film after the original trilogy, even if it did contain similar plotlines. I may pass on the next episode altogether - I've become that disillusioned by most things after Return of the Jedi.
I suppose the recent Planet of the Apes trilogy would be considered a prequel. It doesn't exactly align with the reasons for the rise of the apes as spelled out in the original five films. I really enjoyed those three recent films, and hope they'll continue the exploration of the characters and their journey.
Doug
I don't mind a prequel if it adds to the original without changing it too much (or adding too many coincidental connections ... winking elements as HB called them); unfortunately there aren't many that can manage it properly. An example from comics that comes to mind are the G.I. Joe Declassified prequels, where Larry Hama took all the hints and flashbacks from the regular series and put them together into some great stories.
I can't think of anything that's just screaming out for a prequel offhand; I'll probably think of one ten minutes after I leave this comment ... ain't that always the way?
Actually, here's a BIG exception to my own rule: The long-running British detective series INSPECTOR MORSE came to a for-sure close with the death of actor John Thaw. (Although the continuity continued on with Morse's partner taking the reigns in INSPECTOR LEWIS-). But really, better than both, I think, is ENDEAVOUR-- which specifically focuses on brilliant young rookie-detective Morse on the force in the Swingin' Sixties/Seventies. It's a superior piece of period detective television, and possibly works better because it lets us inside the character's emotional life in a way that the original series rarely did. The older Morse was never the most accessible of forthcoming of characters. . .
HB
Doug-
I agree with you about the POTA prequels, they're entertaining. More so than the Tim Burton remake.
That being said, I find being "old school" that it's still hard for me to really get into heavily soaked CGI films. I do appreciate them if the story is well written and the "real humans" can act. Also I understand that most effects/scenes could not be done "practically".
It also helps if I'm enamored with a heroin/starlet. Milla Jovovich. Hubba-hubba. They could do sequels, prequels and inbetween-quels for Resident Evil till forever and I'd be there.
Same with Scarlet Johansson. Though Lucy & Ghost In A Shell were mostly panned, she showed up and I enjoyed them. There NEEDS to be a Black Widow movie!!!
About the too-much CGI: I really enjoy revisiting movies of the 60s to 80s lately. No CGI, no endless chase scenes with no real story-telling point, but still very good camera angles and colors. Also I like revisiting the architecture, cars and fashion of that time.
Late to this party, and first, I have to address something that came up in several comments above: The Hobbit is not a 'prequel.' It was written and published before the Rings trilogy, and it's very much it's own thing. In fact, LotR started out as a sequel to the Hobbit but then grew into something much more. Personally, I like the Hobbit far more than the subsequent trilogy, as it's a far more enjoyable story.
Otherwise, though, I tend to agree with the consensus that prequels are mostly unnecessary, and - like others - would point to the godawful Star Wars prequel trilogy. That said, I liked both Rogue One and Solo, but more as one-off SF/action films rather than anything that 'enhances' the whole Star Wars epic.
Solo in particular I liked because I actually think it improves on some aspects of the SW universe: I like the way the rebels were presented, i.e., like hard-scrabble bandits rather than the well-organized force with a clearly delineated military hierarchy (complete with uniforms and fleets of identical combat ships) we see in the main ('numbered' films), and the fact that the ill treatment of 'droids, which in the SW universe are sentient but still treated like appliances/slaves, was *finally* explicitly pointed out and addressed to some extent.
Totally awarding you a much-appreciated No-Prize (hey. . . THERE'S an old tradition worth reviving---!) for the HOBBIT correction, there, edo--- No kidding, that backwards order is how our 8th-grade Literature Club teacher presented it to us, and I never gave it a second thought in the 40+ years since-- ha!--- So, clearly it's not an exception to the general feeling about prequels after all. . . in a way, Hobbit/LOTR adheres more closely to the pattern you see a LOT with fictional/fantasy/sci-fi world-building: where the first work tends to be lighter (to a degree) and more fun, and then subsequent issues or volumes or episodes increasingly take themselves more seriously, and the world gets larger and darker and much more complex. . . and (for me) a lot less fun. (Asperin's MYTH series, BUFFY, THE DRESDIN FILES, the ANIMORPHS series, and so on---) (Hunh-- might be worthy discussion topic all its own---)
With the SW Universe-- I wonder if it might be at its best in the PROLIFIC book series' that are set in it? HBLad devoured ALL of them in his youth, and they clearly had a much more profound effect on him than any of the films. And he loved the films, mind you. I suppose the novels aren't exactly prequels or sequels, but like "sidequels"--- although I've only read one or two myself. . .
HB
I'm not much for prequels yet I still seem to watch many. A glutton for punishment I guess.
I did enjoy GODFATHER II if that's considered a half a prequel!
Anybody still out there?
I'm with the group; prequels don't appeal much to me. In comics, I think of the recent "Watchmen" prequels; don't see why that was necessary. Another comic series, though, that I highly recommend: "Untold Tales of Spider-Man". Of course, those stories took place during the Lee/Ditko era, so it wasn't truly a 'prequel'...
I will go out on a limb here, though: I may be the only soul who actually enjoyed "The Phantom Menace". Yes, even with Jar Jar Binks. I think it was the pod racing scene that did it for me.
Still here, Red.
You said it yourself with regard to 'Untold Tales.' Not a prequel and more of a case of 'filling in the gaps.' Personally, I have nothing against that, esp. in comics, provided that it's done well and is used to tell good stories, rather than scratching some kind of retconning itch.
Thanks for all the comments :)
HB, I remember my father and I watching the GREASE sequel on TV circa 1990 - we both quite liked it :D
I too much prefer THE HOBBIT to LORD OF THE RINGS. When I was 7 in primary school my teacher, Mr. Selwood, would finish the school day by sitting on a stool in front of the class and reading us the latest instalment from THE HOBBIT.
By the way, I've never seen a single episode of INSPECTOR MORSE or its' sequels/prequels.
Doug, I've only seen the third film in the recent PLANET OF THE APES trilogy but I thought it was terrific. I'd love to see more apes films and hopefully a remake of the original 1968 film.
On the whole I agree that prequels aren't a good idea. I wish STAR TREK would boldly go into the far future with new characters and new ideas rather than relying on yet another bloody prequel.
But AUNT MAY: THE BEATNIK YEARS might be interesting :D
This is a total, TOTAL tanget, Colin-- but your last mention of Aunt May, there, got me thinking. . . with the Sliding Marvel Timeline and everything taken into account and all-- the Aunt May in Amazing Fantasy #15 could well have been born in the 19th Century, and at her very youngest would have been a teenager during the First World War. Today's Aunt May would have been at the tail end of-- or even AFTER-- WW2!! Cripes, May really COULD be a Baby-Boomer now! Geeze, that's hard to reconcile. . .
HB
As an "inbetween-quel" I found Avengers #1.2 highly entertaining. Erik Larson did a fine homage to Kirby's artwork, and it was great to read an early Avenger story that didn't involve the Avengers beating up on the Hulk, like issues 1-3 & 5, then the infamous FF/Avengers crossover where Stan kept referring to Bruce Banner as "Bob". Lol.
@Killdumpster
Do you have any idea where I can get Avengers #1.2? Is there any trade paperback that includes it?
Sorry, Chim.
As far as I know only the single issue was/is available. Maybe someone else knows better. Possibly online?
Great buncha panels where the Hulk tears off Dr. Doom's head. Iron Man asks him how he knew it was a robot.
Looking at the head in his hand, Hulk mutters, "A robot?.." Fragging great story!
Humanbelly-
When I saw you bring up Aunt May's history, I thought, what if May WAS in WWII! I can see the title now.. "MAY OF THE WACs!"
A very young Aunt May doing field medicine on the Howling Commandos, or on Cap & Bucky! Occasionally grabbing a machine gun or bazooka to fend off Nazi hordes!
There could've been an inter-company crossover where a German secret weapon went haywire and caused a dimensional rift, landing her with Sgt. Rock!
Thinking us fans can come up with better books than what's coming out now.
I don't really have time to contribute anything to today's discussion. But I wanted to mention why I've been absent, if anyone noticed. I recently started a new job, which also happened to coincide with me getting a role (with 300 lines of dialogue) in a local production of 'Arsenic And Old Lace'. Which means I've been keeping "theatre hours" while the new job has forced me to drastically alter my sleep schedule. So I'm either working, acting or sleeping with time for little else.
Which also explains why my blogs have been dormant of late. I hope to get back to commenting here when my life gets a tad more uniform, but I just wanted to say hi and say that I'm glad this place (and its regulars) are still around.
J.A.
J.A.- Great to hear from you! Best of luck with the theatrics, and with remembering all those lines. Glad you're still out there, we'll keep a seat warm for you...
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