Redartz: Happy Tuesday, everyone, and welcome to another 'meeting of the minds'! You get to set the topic for today's discussion; that's the plan of course. But to get things going, I'll put out a topic as well, so we get another 'double dose' of debate.
My topic arises thanks to the influence of our friend Steve over at "Steve Does Comics" (which, if you haven't checked it out, you really should). During one of his posts this past week he mentioned an ABBA song he favored. Being an ABBA fan, I had to investigate said song, courtesy of YouTube. Upon hearing that song ("Eagle", by the way), I was monumentally moved by it's power and beauty. So, a question for you all today: Is there a song that REALLY affects you, moves you, brings tears to your eyes? Not necessarily your favorite song, but one that has a deep emotional effect over you. It reminds me of something my Grandmother (a music lover and piano teacher) once said to me: "You can tell a good piece of music when it sends chills down your spine". She was quite right.
Now, the mike is back in your hands. Have at it, friends!
20 comments:
Redartz, I've spent the past couple of minutes trying to recall a song that affects me in the manner you've posed, and I just can't think of one. I will say, however, that I will stop and listen to just about any Carpenters song I happen by. Karen Carpenter's voice melts me. So in terms of a reaction to a particular artist, I guess she'd get to me.
I did have a question for today, if anyone is willing to indulge me: Last week I was reading a Martin Pasko/Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez Superman (DC Comics Presents #2) story, and the Man of Steel solves the problem by moving the Earth about 3 feet in order to get it back in its correct orbit. I found it funny that I didn't seem to have a problem that the aliens du jour possessed the technology and execution to move the Earth from it's orbit in the first place. What I did take umbrage with was Superman's seemingly-infinite strength. This was pre-Crisis Superman, of course.
So my question, to go along with Redartz's, is - How powerful is too powerful? Should Hank Pym be able to grow to 100-feet, or more? Should Superman be able to affect the Earth in its orbit? Should the Atom be able to shrink to... well, an atom's size?
Thanks, everyone -
Doug
1) I find Sting's "Fields Of Gold" very moving and especially the version by the late Eva Cassidy. Another very moving and beautiful song is "Sand And Water" by Beth Nielsen Chapman which she wrote about her late husband who had died of cancer. Bobby Goldsboro's "Honey" contains certain lyrics which are very poignant for me:
And it was in the early spring,
When flowers bloom and robins sing,
She went away...
My sister died, aged 19, on April 24th 1988 which was the early spring (or early-ish spring). Another very moving song is "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" by Roberta Flack and I also find Joan Baez's voice very beautiful and touching. At the end of the film Silent Running the last remaining little robot is tending the plants to the sound of a beautiful song by Joan Baez which is a heartbreaking scene.
2) I don't know if this counts but I've always wondered why Galactus needs to consume an entire planet. I know he's big compared to humans but he's tiny compared to a planet. Galactus consuming an entire planet would be like me eating a pizza as big as Africa.
1) I'd have to say Frank Sinatra's "In the Wee Small Hours of the Morning," is my real tear jerker. Written after his relationship with Ava Gardner fell apart, it has a simple message and composition which really tugs at the heartstrings. We've all been there.
2) I think that of the DC heroes back in the day were too powerful which is why during the actual Bronze Age, I seldom picked any of them off the racks. Green Arrow and Green Lantern were my exceptions. But for the Marvel characters, I'd turn the question on its head and say that there were characters I wished were more powerful or seemed more powerful than they were depicted. Nova was a character I wished was more powerful. Seriously, he had a great costume, could fly through space, but all he could do was punch stuff? And the Invisible Girl was an example of the latter. Byrne picked that up and later writers expanded on it--minus the whole Malice thing--which I really appreciated.
1) Oh boy. Dangerous turf for me, this one. My emotional vulnerability to music is Kryptonitic in its intensity and effect. I flat out cry at a number of pieces-- which has become a bit of an eye-rolling aggravation over the years for a couple of family members. A bit of observation seems to indicate that minor 7th chords held at the end of the phrase are a particular trigger. But it's definitely intensified by plaintive subject matter. Queen's '39 destroyed me the first time I ever heard it as a young teen. Bach's FUGUE FOR WELL TEMPERED CLAVIER had me walking around in a daze for about 36 hours after seeing PICNIC AT HANGING ROCK in college. A well-rendered, simple AVE MARIA leaves me choked and unable to speak. I've had to pull the car over before if ON MY OWN from Les Mis started playing on the XM Broadway Channel. Pat Benetar's cover of Alan Parson's DON'T LET IT SHOW (originally on his "I, Robot" album) wrecks me. And at the other end of the spectrum, there are pieces that truly choke me up with joy and/or glee: John Williams' MARCH FROM 1941; Basil Poledouris' brilliant theme from QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER; DaVinci's Notebook's cover of STUCK IN THE MIDDLE WITH YOU; The Nylon's cover of Steam's KISS HIM GOODBYE (better than the original, but the album track doesn't seem to exist on Youtube); Paul Revere & the Raiders' (WHAT'S IT GONNA BE)HIM OR ME?; Phish's BOUNCING AROUND THE ROOM.
I'm really all over the musical/emotional map. . .
2) Perpetual Escalation of Powers (and its twin cousin, Perpetual Escalation of Enemies/Threats) is really the Perpetual Downfall of Good Comics Storytelling. In a genre that already relies on a huge amount of suspension of disbelief, it falls all too easily into the realm of utter stupidity AND boredom. Especially since, in comics, the status quo actually can't change all that much. So it's a snake-swallowing-its-own-tail scenario-- and the bigger the powers and events are, the smaller the effect actually becomes. Superman moving the whole earth is inane, and makes no sense on any level of any science. I feel like EVERY writer should be required to read "The Physics of Superheroes" by James Kakalios before they're allowed to put fingers to keyboard, y'know?
Hardcase on this issue, me---
HB
I'm sure I have songs with the effect you've mentioned, but can't think of them now, 'cause I want to tackle the other question!
Yes, things can get too powerful. I only really got into Superman when John Byrne took over, with his emphasis on making him more vulnerable (and even there, he survives a nuclear bomb in the Joker issue in #9).
I wasn't as over-the-moon about Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman as everyone else, and a big reason was I was turned off as soon as it showed Superman lifting something like 5 quintillion tonnes with one hand (that's not hyperbole, it was actually something in the quintillions, or one of those numbers above a billion).
Having enjoyed poring over those Official Handbooks of the Marvel Universe, where 100 tonnes was considered the Hulk-level upper class of superhero strength, Superman's All-Star strength just shut down my brain.
But I may just be like that with all big numbers. The recent news over the black hole being documented didn't do much for me. As soon as I hear something like "it weighs 30 thousand earths" I just figure, yeah, I can't use this information...
-david p.
Thanks for the plug, Redartz.
Let's see, songs that move me in some way.
The first ones that leap to mind are:
Bomber's Moon - Mike Harding. That rare beast, an anti-war song that actually manages to convince you that war is a bad thing.
Moments of Pleasure - Kate Bush. Bush tackles mortality by writing a song about friends and relatives who've died, as well as her mother who was dying at the time of recording.
Homecoming Queen - Sparklehorse. I'm not sure what it's about (presumably ageing?) but it has to be the most beautifully depressing thing I've ever heard.
The Drugs Don't Work - The Verve.
Levi Stubbs' Tears - Billy Bragg. A domestic drama worthy of the Beatles themselves.
As for the question of the day, Doug, I think that's why I gravitated towards Marvel's heroes when I first started reading super-hero comics. I was reading the 1960s stories, thanks to reprints, and the protagonists' fallibility made them seem much more imperilled by their foes. Even the Hulk seemed to be barely stronger than Spider-Man, initially.
Humanbelly, I loved your post!
1.) Bruce Springsteen's "New York City Serenade" form his second album "The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle (1973)". I was a student and just fell in love with a women who had visited Berlin but lived 450 miles away. I got her first letter, it was summer, open windows, I was sitting on the window sill reading the letter again and again and listening to Bruce. It had the same loneliness, longing, hope and strength of youth in it. A perfect match. Every time I hear this song, and also "Born to Run", I am back at that summer day on my window sill and back being 20 years old.
2.) Depends somehow. Generally too much is too much. That is why I was never really interested in Superman. But the exception is Jack Kirby. I just love his graphical storytelling style (not so much the words). At the moment I am reading his whole Thor run. Thor is somehow like Superman, invincible (and he has the same red cape). Also his DC's new Gods are very powerful. The story are often just titanic fights. But it is OK with Jack, I savor every picture.
1) Chills down my spine ... a few songs come to mind: Hallelujah (the Rufus Wainwright version); I'll Follow You into the Dark by Death Cab for Cutie; and Ripple by the Grateful Dead ... hard not to tear up when that's playing.
2) I always thought Green Lantern's ring was too powerful; it was almost magical, being able to do whatever the writer needed it to, but then never doing that particular thing again even when it would've made sense.
Intriguing question, Doug! I agree with those who found DC's heroes a bit overpowered. I liked Superman, but after discovering Peter Parker and his Arachnid Alter Ego, Supes seemed much less interesting. And actually, I found Batman more interesting before his power and abilitiy went through the roof.
Speaking of power, lots of powerful music has been brought up today. HB, your reference to Les Mis made me think of another theatrical tear-jerker. Especially since I became a parent and saw my boys get married, "Sunrise, Sunset" from Fiddler on the Roof always makes me weep like a schoolgirl. And a more upbeat song that 'gets to me': Petula Clark's "This is My Song"; spine-tingly love song for the ages...
Colin J- great mention of Sting, and of Joan Baez. Also, great point about Galactus. Never really thought about that before; makes you think...
Selenarch- that Sinatra tune is excellent. Really sets a mood. And your reference to Susan Storm Richards is a good one; she indeed is possibly the most powerful member of the Four.
Slight tangent on the powers topic:
Has it ever occurred to anyone that Susan Richards' & Green Lantern's powers are in fact very, VERY similar? At least by the time John Byrne had sort of re-imagined what she should "realisitically" be able to do with those powers? Both characters have a power set that largely involves the manipulation of energy to make it behave as if it were matter-- for as long as the user is focused on it. And they are only limited by their will power and imagination. (And Sue is perhaps constrained a bit by the fact that she can't see her fields & constructs.)
Sue should be able to take down just about any creature or being that has a blood supply running to its brain, shouldn't she? A quick, tiny field at a pressure point and. . . zonk. . . she wins again. . .
HB
I agree with Colin on the late Eva Cassidy. Many things she sang can hit you. Personally The Band’s “The Weight” always catches me.
Great conversation on powers - I agree 100% on Green Lantern and Sue Storm. Superman doing almost anything pre-Crisis bugged me. He could run nearly as fast as the Flash. He could eat hamburgers by the truckload. He could move the Earth (as Doug said)! He could convince people he was a totally different guy by putting on glasses!!!! I can’t stand Superman! I agree with Lex Luthor! There I said it.
"When A Man Loves A Woman," by Percy Sledge. Any man who's ever loved a woman can probably relate to this song.......the things we do when we want somebody so much.
I never got into Superman for that very reason.....too powerful. I guess I never got into the Hulk for the same reason. One thing about Green Lantern was that he had to still use his brain to get the ring to do what he wanted it to do.....it wasn't so much that he was all-powerful, but his weapon could be if he used it in the right way.
A Happy Easter to everyone at BITBA (or whoever is still reading this anyway). As well as my usual large chocolate egg I've bought two Reese's peanut butter eggs - small chocolate eggs with a peanut butter filling. I've never tasted peanut butter eggs before so this will be a new experience :D
In my earlier comment I completely forgot to mention John Denver. He was an environmentalist long before climate change became the massive issue it is today. I'm a big supporter of environmentalism too and Denver's nature-themed songs like Rocky Mountain High, Calypso and Sweet Surrender are almost spiritual in my opinion and anybody who isn't moved by the sheer beauty of Annie's Song has a heart of stone and cloth ears. Curious Fact No.1: John Denver died on my father's 70th birthday - October 12th 1997.
Also in my earlier comment I mentioned Bobby Goldsboro's "Honey" and here is Curious Fact No.2:
In the UK singles chart "Honey" reached No.2 on two separate occasions. It was first released in 1968 and peaked at No.2 and then it was re-released in 1975 and reached No.2 for a second time.
Same for Madonna's "Crazy For You" - No.2 in 1985 and No.2 again in 1991 (Curious Fact No.3)
Rush's "Mission," when it accompanied a YouTube video about the space shuttle Columbia tragedy, gave me the chills.
Superman, the Spectre, Doctor Fate, Thor, the Hulk, and, most recently, Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel are all so over-powered that the story would be over before it began, unless (1) the villain is also over-powered and you end up with a Battle of the Gods, or (2) they bring in some arbitrary weakness (e.g., kryptonite) to un-super the hero.
Victim of Changes by Judas Priest, live version from Unleashed in the East. Makes me think of old girlfriends, then starts to rip so hard that it still gives me tingles.
Right across the board, there's just too many so-called multiuniverse/multidimensional/reality shattering events (that usually requires the purchase of LOADS of titles.) that I'm just getting bored.
And all the heroes that were always strong can now destroy time & space with a sneeze. I hope Superman never stops at Taco Bell. His farts could reverse the Big Bang & turn it inside-out. Lol.
If he used Diablo sauce ( I recommend) on his chalupa and farted, not only would all existence of time be obliterated, but the instance that he stopped at Taco Bell wouldn't exist either. Then the Flash would blah blah & Green Lantern would blah blah and we'd get ZERO HOUR 3! Or the New SIXTY Two?! To hell with continuity! Just have everybody back! And diversify! Why can't Superman be autistic?
And maybe I just came up with an "out" for Superman writers. Why doesn't Superman fix/save everything? Because he has a form of Krytionian AUTISM! he has moments where he "stalls-out" momentarily. I'm a fraggin genius.
1. First song that comes to mind is "Last Kiss" by PEARL JAM. Sad sad story.
I'm sure there's more out there for me.
2. Yeah, the "ultra powers" stuff can get tiresome after a while, the villains have no choice but to get exponentially more powerful as well. I like to sprinkle in some Daredevil or Green Arrow stories in. Better yet read yourself a month's worth of Golden Age stories, that'll clean your system out.
I agree, KR. Whenever I need a good old-fashioned comics fix, used bookstores are a great venue for collected editions, Marvel Esstentials & DC Showcases.
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