Redartz: Hi gang! Most of the time here at BitBA we seem to discuss Marvel Comics and their phenomenal cast of characters. So this time around, we'll give a chance to DC. Specifically, the Justice League.
The JLA has had as many lineup changes as the Avengers, and perhaps more. Of course, the League had a couple years head start. A wide range of characters have filled the membership logs of the JLA, including DC's biggest stars, and many of their lesser lights. From Superman to Blue Beetle, from Wonder Woman to Gypsy, much of DC's lineup have occupied the pages of DC's premier team book.
There was the classic original lineup, with the likes of Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman (and frequently Superman and Batman). In the 70's there was the "Satellite Era", with a grand array of members, adding such names as Firestorm, Black Lightning, Elongated Man, Red Tornado, Black Canary and Green Arrow. In the 80's, a new era for the JLA gave us the lineup with Gypsy, Vibe, Steel, Vixen and John J'onzz. A few years later, after the Crisis on Infinite Earths, the "Bwa Ha Ha" league, with Batman, Black Canary, Captain Marvel, Dr. Fate, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Mr. Miracle, John J'onzz and Guy Gardner kept us entertained.
Which lineup was the best? Which heroes had the biggest impact? What characters did you enjoy seeing in the book, and which ones could have stayed home? Give us your opinions, and I won't tell Batman about how you missed the membership meeting...
15 comments:
Gotta run out very shortly, but I REALLY wanted to give a shout-out to the "Detroit Era" of the JLA. It was a startling direction for the team to take (Aquaman dissolving the varsity team; starting the new one with a more Kooky Quartet type of membership--- in Detroit!; then Aquaman leaving the team in J'onn's hands after a year). And although I was sad to see the book fail, the in-continuity failure itself was quite interesting to bear witness to. (Been decades since I've read that arc-- I should go back and refresh. . . )
HB
I can't pick just one single iteration of the team which I particularly enjoyed, so I'll dish up what I think would be the core of a winning JL in my eyes.
First would be the big six:
Superman (swap out with Supergirl)
Batman (swap out with Batgirl or Huntress)
Wonder Woman (a sine qua non)
Green Lantern (whichever, except for Guy Gardner)
Flash (preferably Wally)
Aquaman (I could see Mera here, too)
Then would be a preferred additional six :
Martian Manhunter (sort of like having another Superman and Batman on the team)
Zatanna (more magic can't hurt ... unless it's John Constantine)
Black Canary
Hawkgirl (I prefer Hawkman stay with the JSA, same with Dr.Fate)
Plastic Man (WWPMD? Seriously, WWPMD?!)
Firestorm (I could also go with the Atom)
Cyborg (or any one of the Titans, really. Gotta grow up sometime, right?)
I've never been wowed by a lot of the other candidates Elongated Man, Vixen, Vibe, Gypsy, even Red Tornado, etc ... and I thought about adding Green Arrow, but he'd probably quit half way through any adventure anyway. Metamorpho is also someone who I'd give a think to adding as well.
Cheers!
I came to the team when Dick Dillin took over from Mike Sekowsky on the art chores. Soon thereafter Denny O'Neil took over from Gardner Fox and the JLofA moved out of the cavern into their plush satellite. That's my team (Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Atom and Hawkman). About this time Wonder Woman was in her jumpsuit phase and Martian Manhunter was back home on Mars. Snapper had betrayed the team and was out of the picture. Red Tornado joined a few times during this splendid time. The ideal was when Len Wein took the reins and along with Dillin and Dick Giordano brought about the best JLofA stories I've ever read. Elongated Man was added at this time, much to my delight. Sometime later Steve Englehart showed up and added Hawkwoman to the roster alongside Wonder Woman who had returned earlier. This is my team. When Zatanna showed up along with Firestorm, the greatness was beginning to wane a bit. Soon the book shifted to Detroit and a new order, which had virtues, but it was not the same.
Rip Off
Actually I thought it was a good idea of Fox's to leave Batman (more of a loner) and Superman (Uh, practically unbeatable) off the team at times early on.
With J'onn J'onzz who has a catalogue of powers that nearly matches Superman and Wonder Woman who's strength just about matches his, they're pretty formidable.
Add specialists like the Flash and Aquaman, and your wildcard Green Lantern give them a well rounded team.
I also think the Atom was under utilized in the stories I read. A good writer can make him an invaluable team asset.
I never really cared for Red Tornado or Firestorm.
My favorite team would be pretty much what is depicted on the cover with Red Tornado...Supes, Batman, Hawkman, Atom, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, Black Canary and Green Arrow. I don’t need Elongated Man. And I did also like Red Tornado and Firestorm on the team. When I think of the JLA though I especially liked when Hawkman, Atom and Flash were around. I didn’t need the heavy hitters all the time.
Reading the above I am intrigued by the Detroit version. I never read that
I'll always be more of a Marvel fan than DC, but when Perez moved over to DC in the early '80s, I decided to finally give the JLA a try. Of course, this was also a JLA/JSA crossover, so I really like the JSA better than JLA. But, since this is asking for my favorite JLA team, I'll stick to the following:
Batman
Zatanna
Flash
Hawkgirl
Firestorm
Wonder Woman
Atom
I like this as being a well-rounded team and not depending on the power of Superman. You could even swap out Bats and WW with Mister Miracle and Big Barda, if you don't want any of the big 3 on the team. Though I would enjoy a relationship of Batman and Zatanna in the mix, a la the animated Batman series.
I always liked Martian Manhunter; he's been the core of the team from the beginning, on and off. I really liked the JLA Year One mini, retelling their origins with a more modern sensibility and using Black Canary as a founding member instead of Wonder Woman (who'd been knocked out of Year One continuity at that point); of course, Wonder Woman was re-retconned as a founder (along with Batman and Superman) after Final Crisis, but I still think JLA Year One did a good job showing the personalities and growing relationships of the founders.
As for a dream team, I always thought Green Arrow and Batman were out of their league (so to speak) facing cosmic threats. I'd probably go for a well-rounded team: Martian Manhunter, Atom, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, Zatanna, and Elongated Man, who I thought was a surprisingly good fit. Red Tornado was too angst-ridden, and the Hawks were a bit boring, but if written differently they'd make good additions.
As for the Detroit League, probably the best thing about them was the interplay between the characters; they were believable as a team because they were believable as friends. (Though I wasn't impressed with he way the female characters all turned into Mean Girl stereotypes fighting over Dale Gunn; Gerry probably meant it to be funny, but it made the characters seem juvenile, especially Zatanna, who'd never acted like that before.)
On the Bwa-ha-ha League: I liked the characters generally (Fire and Ice fit in perfectly and the later JLE had some cool characters too), and some of the stories were great, but it sometimes reminded me of the Star Trek episode "Trouble With Tribbles" where they were trying way too hard to be funny and it came off as forced to me.
IIUC, Superman's and Batman's JLA appearances were limited in the early years because editors Mort Weisenger and Jack Schiff did not want them over-exposed. That later changed, and Batman dominated the team in 1966-67, when DC wanted to cash in on the Batman fad that was sweeping the country (see the covers of JLA #46-53 for examples).
"My" Justice League was the 1960s line-up, written by Fox and drawn by Sekowski. By 1970 or so, I was losing interest in comics in general. The "relevance" fad bored me, Green Lantern-Green Arrow was preachy and pretentious, and DC in general and JLA in particular seemed to be imitating Marvel.
Which is ironic, since it was DC that had created the superhero genre in 1938 and then revived it in 1956.
In fact, the Fantastic Four and Avengers were both created because Marvel wanted something similar to the JLA.
Batman and Superman appeared relatively rarely until 1962, when publisher Jack Liebowitz overruled Schiff and Weisenger. JLA's sales had started to dip slightly, and Liebowitz and Julius Schwartz decided to feature the most popular members more often.
Martian Manhunter/J'onn J'onzz was a core member in the early years, mainly as a substitute for Superman. When Superman and Batman began appearing regularly, J'onn became a fifth wheel, and was relegated to a secondary role. His appearances became fewer and further between, and, in the Bronze Age, he was almost completely forgotten.
Fortunately, he seemed to regain his popularity in the post-Crisis era.
I came up during the satellite era, but there were also plenty of 80 Page Specials and 100 Page Super Spectaculars to get me caught up on the earlier era. I loved Dillin's art and, to be honest, his lengthy tenure sort of spoiled me because many of the other comics I read rarely kept a creative team together very long. I kept up with it from around '71 to '83 with a few short breaks in-between. The only thing I hated was that J'onn J'onzz wasn't around for any of my reading, except for guest spots. I didn't really get into the Detroit version....it started around the time I stopped reading comics to focus on college work.
My favorite era was the Wein/Dillin/Giordano period, but Englehart's tenure was pretty memorable, too.
Thanks for joining in today, folks!
HB- the Detroit era had a whole different feel, it seemed to me. Almost like a different book. It's been interesting to see some of those characters show up on the CW programs. For instance, I really like the Vibe character on "Flash"...
Selenarch - liked your comment on Oliver Queen's likelihood for an abbreviated stay. He provided some attitude long before Guy Gardner ever darkened the JLA doorstep.
Killraven and Marti- you both make the point about the "big guns" not always being necessary. Couldn't agree more. Some of the most interesting Leaguers are the 'lesser lights'. Hawkgirl, Zatanna, Firestorm- loved 'em all.
Mike W.- good point about the plentiful humor in the League International era. I really liked the book, for that reason; probably because it seemed a refreshing change from the ubiquitous 'grim and gritty' fare expanding everywhere at the time.
TC and anonymous- thanks for the background on the editorial thinking behind the early League. My DC 'education' is somewhat less complete than the Marvel...
My favorite Justice League team (and title) has always been Justice League International (or the "Bwa Ha Ha League"). I was hooked on that series from the start. I loved the writing, the art, and the team line-up. I have always been a big fan of the Ditko era Charlton Action Heroes like Blue Beetle, and Captain Atom. So, it was very exciting for me to see them as members of the Justice League.
I also loved the way the stories were a mix of solid super hero action and some really great humor. "One punch! ONE PUNCH!" Classic. DC was simply killing it in the he 1980's. With the Justice League International, Teen Titans, John Byrne's Superman, Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, Alan Moore's Watchman, and etc. I think I was actually reading more DC titles than Marvel from 1986 into the 90's.
My second favorite version of the League is the Animated Series team. For me it's just the absolute perfect representation of the classic JLA. That series really brought the comics to life for me. It's just too bad they couldn't take that formula and reproduce it in a live action movie. I also like the Detroit League, and was genuinely sad when the team was destroyed and a good portion of the members were killed off.
I suppose your favourite team will be the one you grew up with as a kid so for me the JLA will always be the one around issues 90 - 120 (vol 1) with Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Atom Hawkman and Red Tornado. I also have a soft spot for the Giffen/Maguire era as it just such a good fun comic and of course the Bruce Timm animated series which probably had every character in it (these 2 versions took me right back to the excitement superheros gave me as a kid)
William- indeed; that Batman / Guy Gardner exchange was priceless. "Sorry we missed the meeting, but not as sorry as Black Canary"...
Paul Mcscotty- solid point; whatever lineup you encounter when starting in comics will always hold a special meaning for you. And the animated series was excellent; Bruce Timm is a huge talent. Even more impressive in this era of super realistic artwork.
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