Martinex1: Put one foot in front of the other... and Follow the Leader! Every Tuesday at BitBA we turn it over to you, the faithful readers for an unplanned conversation. Have fun and keep it interesting. Cheers!
Growing up, I always read that Stan Lee's favorite character was the Silver Surfer, and that for a while no other Bronze Age writer could use the character. SS was introduced in the seminal Silver Age storyline of the Coming of Galactus. So today's question: why the heck was the 1968 Silver Surfer mag so bad? I mean, just read that stuff, and other than the first and fourth issue, it is Hamlet with terrible villains and conflicts. Lee at his worst, his most pretentious "I'm a better writer than just this comic book stuff" phase. Even with Big John drawing some great pencils, there was zero life to those stories.
I have to agree. Silver Surfer #4 is a classic, wonderful Buscema art.
But the stories haven't aged well. Stan wanted him philosophical, maybe he was aiming for recognition outside of the usual comic readership.
In Mark Evanier's "Kirby - King of Comics" I have read, that Stan and Jack Kirby had a big (open or hidden) dispute over what the Silver Surfer should be:
"Jack saw the Server as a creature formed of pure energy, one who had never been human, which explained why he'd beend raoming about the Fantastic Four comic, asking Earthlings to explain love and hate and other (to him) alien concepts."
I like that idea. Would have been interesting what a Silver Surfer Vol 1 by Jack Kirby instead of John Buscema would have been.
I personally very much like the new Silver Surfer Vol 7 and Vol 8 by Mike Allred and Dan Slott (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Silver_Surfer_Vol_7). This Silver Surfer has a soul and a really great human girlfriend, Dawn Greenwood, who travels with him on the board around the galaxy.
Just found a nice blog article about Jack Kirby's original Silver Surfer and the changes done by Stan Lee afterwards. It argues an interesting argument in that article.
Chim- thanks for that link, very thought provoking article. As for the Surfer's 1968 book, it's been so long since I read any it's tough to make any assessment. The only one I still have is 14, primarily because of it's awesome Spider-man cover. The story inside, while not bad, is not great either...
I read Silver Surfer first through the two big Stan Lee paperbacks, Bring on the Bad Guys (reprinted SS #3) and Marvel's Greatest Superhero Battles (#4) and loved both of those, esp. #4.
Then I read Silver Surfer through the Fantasy Masterpieces reprints, and I remember enjoying those, although when they started doubling up with Adam Warlock reprints, that immediately became the draw, with the SS story of secondary interest.
I think I recently tried reading one of those old Silver Surfer reprints (#7) and found it a bit of a slog. Looking back, I think Buscema's art was the main selling point.
As a side note, the movie Crimson Tide had a sequence (I think punch-up written by Quentin Tarantino) where Denzel Washington is settling an argument about the more definitive Silver Surfer artist, Jack Kirby or Moebius (Denzel declared Kirby the one true SS artist). It's a pretty cheesy scene, not only because it's abruptly shoe-horned in to insert some pop-culture "cool" reference, but because for me John Buscema will always be the standard for Norrin Radd's adventures.
I liked the original Silver Surfer series - "liked" but did not love it. The Buscema art was the high point. And I liked the first handful of stories particularly. The origin issue, Badoon, Mephisto, Thor - all were great with my favorite being the battle with Badoon in the second issue. Later issues lost me with Frankenstein and that pirate ghost and the Doomsday Man... I think it was one title in which Stan did not create memorable adversaries and villains. Like we recently discussed on the influence of villains, I think that weakness on SS hurt the book. Toward the end they brought in Spider-Man, Human Torch, S.H.I.E.L.D, and the Inhumans to boost it up, but it didn't work. I also liked the 25 cent big book feel in the beginning; there was something about that that made it seem special.
I do very much appreciate though that it really ushered the cosmic into Marvel. Sure there was Captain Marvel at the time, but I think Stan's passion took it to a different level. And I think later Mar-Vell, Warlock, and Jim Starlin owe some small debt to Silver Surfer for the other worldly philosophical and cosmic feel.
I like Buscema's art much more than Kirby's on the character, but I think I may have enjoyed Kirby's savage alien better. Hard to say.
Kirby took over the series with the last issue #18 and I always wondered what would come of that. There are actually some good issues in the later series with Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers.
Wow, talk about waking up the memory bank... I bought SS 15 off the spinner in 1970. I was intrigued by the Torch - Surfer cover. Must have been one of earliest purchases for sure!
I would just echo would Marti and Yoyo describe above.
But I wonder if it was a bit early in Marvel's universe to start writing "space alien" yarns? Both Surfer and Cpt Mar-vell only made it about 20 issues.
B.t.w. I would gently suggest that Colan's work on those few early issues of Cpt Mar-vell in that glorious green and white uniform beat out Big John's Surfer? Just a thought... :)
CH47 I think a lot of folks like the green and white Captain Marvel. I've always been a fan of those early issues too. They seemed outside of the Marvel norm. I liked that CM was really a rogue spy for the alien enemy of Earth.
Agreed on the great Buscema art..., sadly there wasn't a strong enough backstory or character development to sustain interest. The guest stars were good, but you need a better reason to buy the issue long-term.
14 comments:
Growing up, I always read that Stan Lee's favorite character was the Silver Surfer, and that for a while no other Bronze Age writer could use the character. SS was introduced in the seminal Silver Age storyline of the Coming of Galactus.
So today's question:
why the heck was the 1968 Silver Surfer mag so bad? I mean, just read that stuff, and other than the first and fourth issue, it is Hamlet with terrible villains and conflicts. Lee at his worst, his most pretentious "I'm a better writer than just this comic book stuff" phase. Even with Big John drawing some great pencils, there was zero life to those stories.
Yoyo
I have to agree. Silver Surfer #4 is a classic, wonderful Buscema art.
But the stories haven't aged well. Stan wanted him philosophical, maybe he was aiming for recognition outside of the usual comic readership.
In Mark Evanier's "Kirby - King of Comics" I have read, that Stan and Jack Kirby had a big (open or hidden) dispute over what the Silver Surfer should be:
"Jack saw the Server as a creature formed of pure energy, one who had never been human, which explained why he'd beend raoming about the Fantastic Four comic, asking Earthlings to explain love and hate and other (to him) alien concepts."
I like that idea. Would have been interesting what a Silver Surfer Vol 1 by Jack Kirby instead of John Buscema would have been.
I personally very much like the new Silver Surfer Vol 7 and Vol 8 by Mike Allred and Dan Slott (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Silver_Surfer_Vol_7). This Silver Surfer has a soul and a really great human girlfriend, Dawn Greenwood, who travels with him on the board around the galaxy.
https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/4/48/Silver_Surfer_Vol_8_10.jpg
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/a/ac/Silver_Surfer_Vol_7_1.jpg
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/1/1a/Silver_Surfer_Vol_7_13.jpg
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/1/11/Silver_Surfer_Vol_7_4_Textless.jpg
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/1/17/Silver_Surfer_Vol_7_12_Textless.jpg
Just found a nice blog article about Jack Kirby's original Silver Surfer and the changes done by Stan Lee afterwards. It argues an interesting argument in that article.
http://zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/ff_Surfer.html
Chim- thanks for that link, very thought provoking article. As for the Surfer's 1968 book, it's been so long since I read any it's tough to make any assessment. The only one I still have is 14, primarily because of it's awesome Spider-man cover. The story inside, while not bad, is not great either...
I read Silver Surfer first through the two big Stan Lee paperbacks, Bring on the Bad Guys (reprinted SS #3) and Marvel's Greatest Superhero Battles (#4) and loved both of those, esp. #4.
Then I read Silver Surfer through the Fantasy Masterpieces reprints, and I remember enjoying those, although when they started doubling up with Adam Warlock reprints, that immediately became the draw, with the SS story of secondary interest.
I think I recently tried reading one of those old Silver Surfer reprints (#7) and found it a bit of a slog. Looking back, I think Buscema's art was the main selling point.
As a side note, the movie Crimson Tide had a sequence (I think punch-up written by Quentin Tarantino) where Denzel Washington is settling an argument about the more definitive Silver Surfer artist, Jack Kirby or Moebius (Denzel declared Kirby the one true SS artist). It's a pretty cheesy scene, not only because it's abruptly shoe-horned in to insert some pop-culture "cool" reference, but because for me John Buscema will always be the standard for Norrin Radd's adventures.
-david p.
@Anonymous. This is fun. Here is the movie scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miOpmWYLp-k
Silver Surfer comics also played a role in the Richard Gere movie Breathless (1983)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiXcJwS7S_o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxC5BEJMb9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xovM_breADc
I liked the original Silver Surfer series - "liked" but did not love it. The Buscema art was the high point. And I liked the first handful of stories particularly. The origin issue, Badoon, Mephisto, Thor - all were great with my favorite being the battle with Badoon in the second issue. Later issues lost me with Frankenstein and that pirate ghost and the Doomsday Man... I think it was one title in which Stan did not create memorable adversaries and villains. Like we recently discussed on the influence of villains, I think that weakness on SS hurt the book. Toward the end they brought in Spider-Man, Human Torch, S.H.I.E.L.D, and the Inhumans to boost it up, but it didn't work. I also liked the 25 cent big book feel in the beginning; there was something about that that made it seem special.
I do very much appreciate though that it really ushered the cosmic into Marvel. Sure there was Captain Marvel at the time, but I think Stan's passion took it to a different level. And I think later Mar-Vell, Warlock, and Jim Starlin owe some small debt to Silver Surfer for the other worldly philosophical and cosmic feel.
I like Buscema's art much more than Kirby's on the character, but I think I may have enjoyed Kirby's savage alien better. Hard to say.
Kirby took over the series with the last issue #18 and I always wondered what would come of that. There are actually some good issues in the later series with Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers.
Thanks for the topic starter today.
Wow, talk about waking up the memory bank... I bought SS 15 off the spinner in 1970. I was intrigued by the Torch - Surfer cover. Must have been one of earliest purchases for sure!
I would just echo would Marti and Yoyo describe above.
But I wonder if it was a bit early in Marvel's universe to start writing "space alien" yarns? Both Surfer and Cpt Mar-vell only made it about 20 issues.
B.t.w. I would gently suggest that Colan's work on those few early issues of Cpt Mar-vell in that glorious green and white uniform beat out Big John's Surfer? Just a thought... :)
CH47 I think a lot of folks like the green and white Captain Marvel. I've always been a fan of those early issues too. They seemed outside of the Marvel norm. I liked that CM was really a rogue spy for the alien enemy of Earth.
Agreed on the great Buscema art..., sadly there wasn't a strong enough backstory or character development to sustain interest. The guest stars were good, but you need a better reason to buy the issue long-term.
The current Silver Surfer series by Dan Slott and Mike Allred is great!
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