The first commenter here starts the conversation topic and we all jump in with observations, musings, and opinions.
Here are the subjects we have discussed up to this time.
1) Television Theme Songs and Alien Movies.
2) Best and Worst Movies.
3) Jim Shooter - Editor.
4) Kirby's Art and Michael Jackson's Songs.
5) Building and Changing Comic Universes.
6) Foods We Dislike.
7) Falling Out of Love with a Comic Creator.
8) Comic Collecting - Stops and Starts.
9) Favorite Newspaper Comic Strips.
10) Musicals.
11) Country Music.
12) Favorite Comic Arcs.
13) First Comic Acquisition.
14) The Munsters or The Addams Family.
15) Classical Music.
16) Hammer Films.
17) Misheard Song Lyrics.
18) Reading Comics Today.
19) Arnold Schwarzenegger.
20) Great Comic Issues that Aren't the First Issue.
21) Departure of a Comic Creative Team.
22) Bad Beatles Recordings.
23) Characters that Bore You.
24) Additional Income and Summer Reading.
25) Secret Identities.
26) Five Beatles Questions.
27) Comic Reviews of Recommended Arcs.
28) Comic Book Annuals.
29) Elton John
30) Ray Harryhausen Films
31) Last week: Music Listening Devices
So will it be comics, creators, music, movies, television, books, food or something else from the Bronze Age this time? Keep us hopping! Cheers all!
20 comments:
Almost the entirety of the Marvel Universe sprang forth from the pages of the Fantastic Four. Yet they currently have practically zero cache.
That mag will always be my favorite, and it pains me to see the First Family become a laughingstock.
Any ideas why? Are the bad movies to blame? Marvel Comics near-complete rejection of them?
Yoyo
Since it is 8:30 AM CST and we have not had a suggestion yet, let's talk about BitBA itself so we can better serve you.
What features do you like and not like? How would you rank what you see here? We'd like some feedback so we can gear the site somewhat toward preferences (although sometimes we like to get off the beaten path a bit).
Do you like discussions around comic books, comic reviews, toys, games, television, movies, Bronze Age novelties, characters, artists, original artwork, etc?
Do you like particular features - "This &That," "Pulled from the Pack". "TV Guided" "Chew the Fat" "Sunday Recommendations" "Short Cuts" "Animation Congregation" "Brave or the Bold" "Quarter Bin" "Panel Discussions" "Rank and File" "Follow the Leader" or any of the other categories we get into?
What would you like to see more of? What would you like to see less of?
What suggestions do you have for us - specific or general?
Sometimes it is hard for us to measure success as a popular item may not get a significant amount of comments and vice versa.
Don't be shy - we really want some input. And if you have topics that we haven't covered yet but should, let us know.
Cheers!
Ugh. I see that Yoyo and I crossed paths. As I was typing he was publishing. So both topics are open... the FF and BitBA success. Sorry about that Yoyo, but we will be sure to get you specific answers on your great query.
For me - it was threefold . The FF movies are really not good and nowhere near the complexity, humor, and respect of other super hero films. They did not take the source material seriously and they made the heroes extremely two dimensional. On top of it, they totally misplayed the villainy of Doom. And they could not handle the Thing well - neither from a design standpoint or in terms of character. That definitely affected the comics. In addition I think Ben as center of the Marvel universe ( along with Spidey) had been slowly eroding and Marvel needs to get that back on track. Ben is the heart of the team. Lastly I think Marvel struggles to depict change in the team's relationships without changing characters. The mix and match of perspectives with a team like the Avengers is easier than the family four. I don't think they know how to resolve or fix that.
Oof. I'm in the process of re-organizing my collection and I was just thinking of this last weekend when I hit the "F"s. At first I thought that it was because there just hasn't been the same interest or ability to capture the family dynamic which made "Lost in Space" or "Land of the Lost" such interesting shows. But then I thought that the FF actually do accord well with any narrative which consists of people "choosing" to make a new family from their friends and significant others. So perhaps that isn't the case at all.
One thing I think was missing from the books was the sense that they were really explorers. Byrne's run rightly emphasized this aspect even though it sometimes underwhelmed. This might be indicative of something broader socially, however. How many real explorers of that type are there? I think that I was lucky to grow up watching moon landings and shuttle launches, rather than just rovers and probes (not that those aren't great). But the sense that people can personally and physically discover something wonderful like Atlantis by diving deep or an underground kingdom by digging hard or an entirely new dimension by shifting energies and actually stepping across into it is not something we see a lot of nowadays. So I think that the FF loses some of its fascination when that aspect gets lost.
I think the book lost its way after Byrne and has never recovered. And I say that as someone who kept reading the series for about 5 years after Byrne's departure. He was followed by Stern, Engelhart, Walt Simonson, and DeFalco who of course are great writers, but their runs were somewhat lackluster.
FF had been surpassed by X-men as the bestselling team book and Avengers became the "hot" book in the 90s. That decade also gave us Sue's cheesecake costume and the reveal that Alicia had been a Skrull when she married Johnny. I'd theorize that the mediocre movies were the last nail in the FF's coffin.
Which is too bad, because as a kid, Ben Grimm was my second favorite Marvel character, after Spider-Man.
I have to confess that even if there was a new FF book, at $4-$5 I wouldn't buy it anyway. So maybe I am part of the problem. But as far as issues 1-290 (or so) go, it's as good a run as anything that's ever been published in comics.
RE: BitBA... I am continually amazed at the topics you guys come up with and the interaction from the readers. We shuttered the BAB largely because we felt we'd run dry on ideas. That hasn't been the case here, and after nine months of publication this site is running strong. Keep it up!
Doug
Having a stretch of "too busy to fully participate" again, me. (Had a WONDERFUL personal paranormal childhood experience anecdote directly related to yesterday's plastic army guy post-- and simply didn't have the keyboard time available to contribute it. . . perhaps closer to Halloween. . . ?)
But I TOTALLY want to voice my fondness and support for all of Red & Marti's stable of Regular Features. They quickly create a home-y sense of familiarity, and yet are clearly accessible to new folks as well. I think you guys are hittin' it out of the park, to be honest. Popular posts/less-popular ones? Heck, I daresay it's just as unpredictable as the weather, y'know? Who's gonna be busy? What side comment might spark a more feverish discussion? Overall, I very much appreciate the branching-out into the wider world of our past likely-shared interests-- bicycle topics, games, toys, etc.
Demise of the FF? I think in the long run they ran into the same problem that plagued Spidey once he & MJ got married: how to write a character, and give the illusion of "growth", w/out actually upsetting the status quo of the character's original premise. If ANY book won the title for having creative teams take it(them) "back to their roots" the most times, I think it would have to be the FF, yeah? How many flippin' times was Ben cured, only to have it reversed-- often as his own decision? How many times did we see Johnny gradually mature--- only to be dragged back to being a stupid, shallow teen-like doofus again?
And yeah-- a string of awful movies that didn't show any respect of love of the source material. Heck, I thought the Thing get-up in Roger Corman's abortive disaster was probably the one that actually captured the Comic-Book Ben the best. . .!
HB
Regarding the FF- for years they were near the top of my list, second only to Spidey. I still hold out hope that they will return, the great reputations of the Lee/Kirby and Byrne runs evidences the fundamental strength of the team. I agree with those above who found the films lackluster. But all things seem to come around eventually, and I think the Fab Foursome will to. And Bashful Benjy is mighty close to my heart, too!
Doug and HB- many thanks for the kind words! And HB, I'll hold you to your "paranormal childhood" story- can't wait to hear it. Bet there'll be some spooky postings come October (my favorite month- 2 months away, just have to sweat through humid August and September).
I've never been a big FF fan, although I did read the entire first run because I'm a completest. I think the FF are best when they take on threats that wouldn't automatically fall to the Avengers, like Galactus or Annihilus from the Negative Zone. Maybe the FF should guest star in the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie, as a serious counterpart to the team's wackiness. Plus, I wanna see Ben Grimm and Drax interact ...
As for the site, I like what you're doing so far. I can't think of any features that I dislike, even if I don't always contribute to every discussion. I'm like Mr. Ed ... I never speak, unless I have something to say (Hey!)
On the second question/topic, I really have nothing much to say or add. I think the site's great, I enjoy visiting it every day (often several times a day) and I'm fine with all of your regular features and so forth.
On the second question, it's always been my impression that the FF series was deliberately axed due to corporate shenanigans involving the motion picture rights more than anything else. Pretty sad, given that - as Yoyo pointed out - the FF was ground zero for the explosion from which the entire Marvel universe sprang forth.
I've written about the current lack of an FF book on The Middle Spaces before: “Lo, There Shall Be An Ending:” Meditations on the End of the Fantastic Four, but for those who don't want to read my long-winded take, perhaps a sentence from near the end captures what Selenarch mentioned:
(Blogger wouldn't let me blockquote)
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can there be much for the Fantastic Four to do in a universe so well-mapped and codified—a world, in the words of comics scholar Charles Hatfield, so “overcrowded?” What remains to be explored, except umpteen variations of an always recognizable Marvel Universe in a set-up that has already been done to death in series like Excalibur and Exiles? What realms of imagination remain, and will there ever again be a Kirby-like font of ideas with which to explore them?
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The best iteration of the FF these days isn't even FF, it is the Furst Family from Astro City.
Oh, but I do think a lot of you would like this new series from Dark Horse called Black Hammer (I reviewed it here) - it has that Silver/Bronze Age appeal, but a little more grown up. As I mention in my review, it owes a lot to FF and other Kirby creations.
As for BitBA, my biggest complaint is that I don't get over here often enough or early enough in the day to feel a part of the conversation. I am always among the last to comment, or am commenting days later. This is not R or M's fault, obviously, though I do sometimes wish we had threaded comments on here so we could more directly and clearly respond to each other.
Regarding BITBA -
I would go to "every other day." You have great subjects and I think us working folks can't always respond daily, or respond later at night when folks have stopped reading, and well we kind of miss out on a lot of potential input (basically echoing Dr. O)? Also, I fear you two will "burn out" since this must be time consuming! Take a break! Other blogs don't come close to daily (e.g., Steve Does D.C. is only 2x / week).
I would like a day of "random thoughts." Not necessarily follow the leader. Things like "Hey, did you hear Stan Lee has a new book" or "Hey Gerry Conway is going to kill off..."
Regarding the FF...
This is the only Marvel comic I collected in depth and bought a ton of silver age back issues. It hurt to see them go but times change... Comicdom is littered with great characters who really could not hang 40 - 50 years later.
Supposedly DC is releasing something to fill the FF void. Metamorpho will be the Thing. Elongated Man will be Reed Richards. Forget who the other 2 will be.
Oh, I dunno CH47-- I do so love having a daily check-in, even if I'm unable to contribute. And. . . I've kind of been hoping that having a big catalog of fun Regular Features to draw from relieves that daily-grind for Red and Marti just a bit-- which I guess may be wishful thinking, gosh.
How are you two holding up? We definitely DON'T want you to burn out, no question there!
HB
I'm back to say that I agree with Osvaldo about the fact that conversations on these posts tend to die rather quickly, which is something that often happened at the BAB as well. And like Osvaldo noted, that's not a criticism of Redartz or Martinex at all, but maybe sort of a criticism aimed at the regulars and other less frequent visitors. The thing is, whenever I visit the site, I usually check the posts from the previous few days to see if there's any new comments - and sometimes post a response myself.
Anyway, since this comment is being written a little after 3 a.m. EST on the morning after, it will probably demonstrate the point I'm making and not elicit any further conversation...
Edo, I am thinking, is expressing what I was trying to say and Dr. O and probably others. Edo's remark at 2:20 AM is sort of "dead" since the next blog for today (wednesday) will have posted and seldom will folks return to the previous day or two. So in a sense Edo (and me as I type) are basically writing for ourselves and Red and Marti.
Maybe take a Bronze Age approach to the blog? We did not grow up with non-stop "breaking news." I like the thrill of anticipation e.g., seeing what our Euro guys may have written overnight while we USA guys were sleeping and vice versa I assume. Indeed ,the hunt /anticipation of a monthly comic and finding it (or not!) was what we all grew up with.
And some wonderful blog ideas I think get "wasted" just b/c it's a w/end or holidays or vacation and no one is able to take time to share their thoughts.
So... Off to work! Cheers!
Charlie, I commend you on proving me wrong. To quote the great late 20th century pop culture critic and commentator Wayne Campbell, "Excellent, my friend!"
As for a solution to the conundrum several of us have pointed out here, I'm kind of drawing a blank, since I have no experience in actually running a blog or any kind of website at all. The threaded comments that Osvaldo suggested may be an improvement, while your own every-other-day suggestion seems practical - but I like coming here everyday to see what's new (however, if R & M decide to go that route just because it's too much work to keep up the daily pace, I would completely understand and support that decision).
LMAO - Edo! To prove you right I have to prove you wrong!!! I'm still laughing! Great way to walk into the office: with a big smile!
Edo and Charlie- thanks for all your observations! Marti and I do get notifications whenever a comment is left on any post, and often we will reply. I have wondered about the extent to which older posts continue to draw comments, and what might be done to encourage that. Your input, and that of everyone, is invaluable!
I want to add that I am against moving away from daily posts! I'd worry that it not being daily would diminish the ability for the blog to stay in people's minds and lead them to consider how important daily visits are to the atmosphere.
I do think that if blogger gives an option for threaded comments, you may want to experiment with turning them on.
Dr. O - I'm reading your postings you HTMLd!
The threaded comments could be a good way to deal with this but is there a lot of maintenance?
At the end of the day, it's up to R & M on how frequent to publish. I would visit regardless.
But as a Bronzer who lived on a monthly schedule of comics which, in the 70s were inconsistently delivered, and one who looked forward in the 70s to weekly delivery of The Buyers Guide for Comic Fandom, I am quite fine with something less than daily.
I dig the anticipation.
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