Chew the Fat: BitBA Poll Results!







Martinex1: Today we are going to head in a slightly different direction and consider the results of some recent polls.


Over on twitter @BackintheBronze where we share random thoughts to consider, we occasionally post Bronze Age related questions to poll the audience.   I'd like to share some of those queries and results, as I am curious what you (our regular followers, commentators, and lurkers) think about the outcome.  Often I was surprised by the responses or the results made me want to discuss the nuances of the topic further.  What better place is there to do that than here on our BitBA site where we can Chew the Fat?


Let's get started as we have a  variety of subjects to consider...


Some of our polls focus on general Bronze Age musings like characters, creators and artistic choices.  I find that I am often in the minority (or rarely in the winning percentage) with my personal choices.  For instance I was surprised that Mystique was the most popular in the below inquiry.  Don't get me wrong, I thought Mystique was a fantastic character but she was not my first choice.  How about you?

I am probably surprised about the below poll only because I am typically a Marvel fan and DC always comes in second.  I can admit that Batman has a classic rogues gallery.

There was definitely a tight race when considering Ben Grimm's supporting cast.

I like considering possibilities for future storylines, comics, movies and entertainment.  I was genuinely surprised that the Wrecking Crew was rated so high for possible cinematic adventures.  I thought for sure people would favor Cap and Baron Blood.

Likewise for this poll, I never expected Nick Fury to be the front runner. 

 For the below, I imagined Dr. Pym battling 1950's era monsters and that seemed pretty popular, but my personal "hope to see someday" would be replacing the original Torch with Johnny Storm in the Invaders.   I think it would be interesting to see a reverse Captain America "not of this era" story with a modern day millennial thrown into the times of WWII.

 It is a favorite pastime of mine to imagine Bronze Age possible titles.  This was a fun poll to consider the results.

Back to real possibilities, I was really surprised by the result of this poll - a very unexpected and tight race.  What would you have voted?

But this is the poll that really got me worked up.  I cannot believe the results.   I thought Wolverine would be the runaway leader in this category.  To paraphrase a comment we received... Wolverine is basically a serial killer now.   In consideration of our recent discussion of dark characters and what is too dark, it is interesting that Wolverine barely moved the needle while others scored so significantly.

So what do you think about any and all of the polls, what the results were, and your own personal feelings about how comics should be and what should or should not be successful?  Please share your thoughts and I hope you've enjoyed this data distraction today.

Follow the Leader: Episode 55: Paste Pot Pete???!??

Martinex1: Hey, it is Follow the Leader time!  What will it be today...television, cinema, comic books, characters, creators, situations, novels, pastimes, food, entertainment, radio, bands, authors, or some other Bronze Age relevant topic?  Keep us going on our streak of discussion today at BitBA!

Riding the Retro Metro: Wednesday January 8, 1975

Redartz:  Hello folks, and welcome to another retro road trip courtesy of your humble hosts at BitBA. Today's destination is January, 1975- prime Bronze age territory, to be certain. As we open our day, the papers are full of talk about the economic recession and increasing unemployment. President Gerald Ford and his new Vice President Nelson Rockefeller have to deal with all that, all we  have to worry about is the pop cultural scene. And it's pretty solid, starting with the pop music charts. Topping  the US Billboard charts:  Elton John, "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds"

What a great cover version. I love that treatment, and I'm apparently not alone: it's at number one for a second week. By the way, John Lennon helps out on this cut, with some backing vocals and guitar work (credited on the 45 as "Dr. Winston O'Boogie"). Speaking of 45's, I went out and bought this one immediately after hearing it for the first time on Casey Kasem's American Top 40.
Rounding out the top five:
2.  Barry White, "You're the First, the Last, My Everything"
3.  Paul McCartney and Wings, "Junior's Farm / Sally G"
4.  Neil Sedaka, "Laughter in the Rain"
5.  Barry Manilow, "Mandy"

There are loads of cool tunes out there right now! Among my personal favorites are Linda Ronstadt's "You're No Good": so good I recorded it on my cassette deck last night. Then there's  John Lennon,"#9 Dream": almost eerie, kind of dreamlike, but a great listen. I also love the new cut from   Doobie Brothers, "Black Water": about as catchy a pop song as you can devise. Wouldn't doubt that song hits the top. And speaking of the top...

Tops in the UK:  Mud, "Lonely This Christmas"

I could talk about today's pop music all day, but hey,  there's other acres to plow. What about the tube tonight?

US Television Schedule:

 

ABC: That's My Mama, ABC Wednesday Movie of the Week, Get Christie Love! 
Of those offerings, I've only seen Christie Love; and that only a couple times. Teresa Graves is sharp; I remember seeing her on "Laugh In".












CBS:  Tony Orlando and Dawn, Cannon, The Manhunter
Now there's a show I'll usually tune in:  Tony Orlando and Dawn. Usually a sucker for variety shows, and their music is pleasing to these ears. Orlando, along with Telma  Hopkins and Joyce Vincent Wilson, deliver the tunes each week, along with some decent laughs. My Mom loves this show too...

Tony Orlando and Dawn

NBC:  Little House on the Prairie, Lucas Tanner, Petrocelli
After "Dawn", I usually switch over to catch David Hartman in  Lucas Tanner. Hartman plays the eponymous high school teacher, and exudes an appealing friendliness and personality. He could host a talk show some day...

David Hartman as Lucas Tanner

BBC1:  The Wednesday Film: The Big Job, Barlow, 'Till Death Do Us Part, Andre  Previn's Music Night, Midweek

BBC2:  Test Cricket from Australia, Newsday, Top Crown, Worldwide, Skating 75, Playhouse, In Vision


Lest we forget, it's Wednesday, new comics day in our town! It's off to the newsstand to see what's on the spinner racks:

It's now almost a year since I started collecting comics, and I'm hooked more than ever. Most of these books are on my list. But especially that Fantastic Four issue; Rich Buckler is doing some terrific things channeling Kirby with his artwork. And this issue features the second part of the Silver Surfer's return! 
That Avengers issue is another must buy; this current storyline with Mantis and Kang is one for the ages. Aaand,  I'm picking up those new Atlas comics here and there. Oh, and the Giant Size Marvels- those are highly anticipated each week. What a great time to be a comics fan! Most everyone else at Junior High have no idea what they're missing. As a matter of fact, it's a great time to be a middle schooler...

Well, that about covers the highlights of our day today. What about you? Which songs, shows and comics will you be talking about to your friends? Share your favorite fads and finds from '75, and keep a lookout for the next return of the Retro Metro!

Adventures in Comics: "What Was I Thinking When I Bought This?"

Redartz:  Good day, everyone! Here at BitBA we have often talked about our favorite finds and cherished purchases. But what about those that didn't pan out? Have you ever taken a chance on a comic, or a lot of comics, taking that 'leap of faith'; only to find yourself wishing for that money back? Perhaps you tried an issue of a new title to 'give it a chance', and regretted it eternally. Maybe you have picked up a box lot off ebay, hoping for some gems, and getting only junk. 

Well, this Bronze Ager has done so. Not on ebay, but I've tried a 'grab bag' of comics from time to time at flea markets. No luck at all; there's obviously a reason those books get sold in a plain wrapper. 

And speaking of plain wrappers, one of my worst purchases should have come in one. Back in college, I was inclined to give almost anything a try (comic-wise, that is). At one local convention, a dealer had a display of a new comic entitled Cherry Pop Tart. From the cover, it looked like a parody of Archie comics, right down to analogues of Betty and Veronica. I gave it a shot, without looking into it. I should have been warned by the "Adults Only" label, but by that time I'd picked up some undergrounds by the likes of Robert Crumb and Howard Cruse. Figured I was sophisticated enough. Turned out to be some pretty cheesy porn; rather embarrassing to look at or even possess. And it wasn't even particularly clever or satirical porn, just tacky. I got rid of it quickly. Oddly, that book seems to have developed some kind of cult following in the intervening years. At any rate, ever since that fiasco I try to look through any 'new experience in reading' I'm contemplating. Which, actually, is a good practice anyway: like the time I bought a copy of Silver Surfer #1 at a rather inflated price, very early in my collecting career. Opened it later to find four pages missing and a detached cover. It just goes to show you, caveat emptor!

What about you fine folks? Have you ever wasted your fifty cents (or fifty dollars) on some four color failure? Open up and we'll share our miseries together...

This & That: Spectacular Spider-Man 77!

 Redartz:  Greetings, folks; and welcome to our first comic review of the new year! Here at BitBA, we've tried to cast some attention to some less -frequently addressed titles, such as Rom and Alpha Flight. Many have written much about Marvel's banner character Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man
 being the flagship title and Spidey's original home. But for today's discussion, we'll look at an issue of Amazing's sister publication, Spectacular Spider-Man, and a fine Bronze Age example it is.

Martinex1:  A good choice for a title to review Red.  I was indeed a Spider-Man fan, but I only owned a smattering of Peter Parker The Spectacular Spider-Man.  I cannot really say why, I just tended to buy Amazing and Team-Up first.  So my knowledge of the stories in Spidey's second series is pretty limited.

Spectacular Spider-Man 77 (Apr. 1983) by Bill Mantlo, Al Milgrom and Jim Mooney

Redartz:  To begin with, how about that cover? It really stood out to me on the stands the first time I saw it...

Martinex1:  I've always liked when they played with the logs and masthead on comics.  I know Ed Hannigan did a number of memorable examples on Spectacular, and here Al Milgrom jumps in with a good one.  I like how the corner box is torn.  My understanding is that they did this all by hand back in the Bronze age - literally cutting and pasting.

 Redartz:  I believe you're right. They didn't have Photoshop back then, but still managed to accomplish some very cool visual effects. Incidentally, Milgrom seems to be showing a few touches of both Steve Ditko and Frank Miller here. Depicting the 'spider senses' going off was a Ditko trademark, and it's nicely done  here. 

And now, a brief summary of the story:



 

The story opens at Potter's Costume Shop (proprietor Melvin Potter, better known as Daredevil's frequent foe Gladiator). A group of thugs have pulled a job, and are trying to elude the police. They burst into Potter's shop, shooting him and threatening to incriminate him (as Potter's currently on parole and trying to go straight- as revealed in references to then-current Daredevil issues).

Meanwhile, Spider-man has just had an unpleasant encounter with Dr. Octopus, who has attacked the Black Cat (who is recuperating in the hospital). As Spidey patrols the city in preparation for a showdown with Ock, he stumbles upon the police cordon around Potter's shop.

 



The police fire tear gas, and the hoods exit the store, along with Potter: now costumed as Gladiator. Spider-man attacks, and there is a brief battle; worsened by Potter's pain-induced relapse into his delusional identity (he thinks he's an actual Roman Gladiator).












But the panicked thugs, fearful that Potter will turn on them, have revealed to the police that Potter was innocent of wrongdoing. Once Spider-man is aware of this, he appeals to Potter's better instincts, breaking through the delusion, and Potter ends his rampage. He then offers to repair Spidey's costume!


 





















 Any initial thoughts on the story, Marti?
 
Martinex1: One flaw I felt in the story is that the robbery thugs never seemed that threatening.   In some comics, these characters would be finished off in a page (or even a panel) so it was a little off having them threaten the Gladiator when that guy went up against Iron Man and Daredevil back in the Silver Age.  

Redartz:  That's a good point. I do like seeing the use of lower-level threats facing heroes like Spider-Man and Daredevil (not really likely to have much success against, say, Galactus). Spidey facing street hoods goes back to his origins, but yes, Potter could have taken them apart easily. Perhaps his mental instabilities made him extra cautious.

The middle section of the issue was devoted to the 'subplot' of Dr. Octopus' vendetta against Spider-man and the Black Cat. I always love seeing Ock, and his attack (ripping out Felicia's life support) was pretty brutal.  Not the greatest Ock/Spidey battle ever, but entertaining and suitably dramatic...
  
Martinex1:  The threats to the hospitalized Black Cat and the subsequent fight scene between Spidey and Doc Ock were nicely handled, but at the end I was left scratching my head.  The villain came to the hospital to confront Spidey and to threaten to kill him "tomorrow"?!?  Huh?  Why not today?  

I know that this story read like a stand alone issue, but the Doc Ock tale in Spectacular had been going on for a few issues and continued after that.  But this particular fight ended like something out of the Batman television show, "Bwah ha ha.  I have you on the ropes, but I'll see you tomorrow when we can really fight!"  I must be missing something, or this could have been scripted a bit better.

Redartz:  Another solid observation, partner.  Ock somewhat addressed the issue, stating he wanted his foe to "know a night of fear". Regardless, Ock caught his foe by surprise (in a rather novel way- having Spider-man's senses alarming during a dream, and thus being ineffective), and the Black Cat was absolutely helpless. Ock never had a better shot at finishing them both off.

The final third of the issue deals with the Gladiator's fate. This particular comic featured two of my favorite villains, Dr. Octopus and the Gladiator. Thus I was warm to the story from the start. I did like how they referenced Potter's background and mental problems from the Daredevil storylines,  I also thought Spider-man reaching out in potential friendship to Melvin was a nice touch; perfectly in keeping with Peter Parker's altruistic nature.


Martinex1: Although I know the Gladiator on the surface, I knew very little of his history.   I did not know that in his madness he thought he was from the Roman gladiatorial times.  I saw the Netflix Daredevil series, and it was interesting to see Melvin running a costume shop of sorts and assisting Daredevil with the costume design.  That was a nice tribute to the original source material.

 Did Spidey and Gladiator ever team up again?  It would be nice to see Melvin identified as the tailor for the Super-set.  

 Redartz: Yes, it was fun to see him appear on the Netflix show. They even had a couple of wrist blades visible, if you looked. Regarding later teamups- good question. Perhaps some of our friends out there can enlighten us. And since you mentioned the costume shop, let's talk about the art. I got a kick out of the background details in Potter's costume shop: Batman and Hawkman costumes! You can see them on the opening pages shown above.

Martinex1: I liked the side column pictures of the creative team.  I am not sure I have seen that done anywhere else, and I wondered what inspired them this time.  Funny that they depicted Jim Shooter as Dr. Doom.  I wonder how he felt about that or if it was just a shared and accepted gag.  He at least went along with the joke.

Redartz:  That credit display was amusing. To hazard a guess, I'd bet Mr. Shooter found being portrayed as Doom pretty humorous...
Overall, I found the artwork to be pretty satisfying. I've mentioned before my appreciation of the work of Milgrom on this title, especially in tandem with Ed Hannigan. Of course here he does pencils, with Jim Mooney inking.  

Martinex1:  I am not the greatest fan of Al Milgrom's art.  It is very hit and miss.  I really liked his early work on Marvel Presents with the Guardians of the Galaxy, but in all honesty his work on the Avengers turned me away.  I feel that he positions heroes in very stiff ways; they never seem comfortable in the pose.  And he also tends to widen the characters' faces; that part often reminds me of Carmine Infantino's work.
However, I do find Milgrom's work to benefit from the inker assigned.  In this case, I am curious how Jim Mooney will fare as I liked his work many years prior over at ASM.  In fact I always thought he helped keep Spidey consistent, and even here on the splash page that is a nicely formed Spider-Man.  

Redartz:  I agree, some of Milgrom's work can be...less successful. I do feel he did some of his best work on Spider-man, and on the Guardians of the Galaxy. And regarding Jim Mooney: great point about his consistency. Mooney seems to have a fairly heavy presence as an inker. Whether inking John Romita, Sal Buscema, or Milgrom, you can see that familiarity everywhere. 

Martinex1:  Mooney was in the comic industry for a long time.  He started out in "funny animal" comics back in the heyday of that genre, before getting a shot at Batman.

Redartz: Quite right; he shows up on some of those old Supergirl stories in Adventure Comics too. 
Oh, that dream sequence of Spider-man and the Octopus:  fairly well executed. That color effect seemed to show up often in comics of this time period, Keith Giffen loved using the technique. I will say that there were a few places in the book (for instance, the orange sky behind Ock during a nighttime scene; shown above) where the coloring seemed a bit odd.

Martinex1:  I too liked the dream sequence and how it was depicted.  The coloring choice for the dreams was interesting - simply leaving the inks alone but colored in magenta.  I wonder whose choice that was.  There is a language used for memories and dreams in Marvel comics that usually includes the panel corners to be rounded.  This was bit different and I liked it.  Although the actual color choice was strange; perhaps a darker green or purple would have been more off-setting, dark, and mysterious.

Redartz:  Okay, time to sum it all up. 

The Good:  A good story with some nice artistic touches; two classic villains and a great cover.
The Bad:  Nothing really bad per se, but there could have been more motivation to Potter's actions, and a few examples of clunky dialogue could be found (is a furious, fleeing hood really going to insult his accomplice using a  "PC" phrase such as "overweight idiot"? ).

 The Ugly:  Some of the pastel colors in the backgrounds. Kind of brought to mind an IZOD shirt. Ew.


Martinex1: 

The Good:  A nice single issue story with a basic if not memorable plot and some action.  It gave some insight to an older standard villain in the Gladiator.  Nice dream sequence.
The Bad: To me it came across sometimes as a Bill Mantlo filler issue. To be fair, I rank Mantlo as one of my top ten favorite writers but there are times, probably due to his prolific nature, that some stories seemed to have less characterization and motivation.  That was somewhat apparent here.
The Ugly: C'mon Doc Ock - finish off your arch nemesis and the Black Cat when you have the chance!  And Shooter as Dr. Doom (I always considered him more like Galactus)!
Rating: I give the book 3,25 Bronze Medallions.   Extra quarter point for the fantastic cover!

Follow the Leader: Episode 54: Dark, Too Dark, or Just Right?

Martinex1:  Well it is a brand new year, but some things stay the same.   So today, being Tuesday, is the day we play Follow the Leader.  Start us on a topic - any topic related to the Bronze Age - and we will all jump in with our commentary.  Cheers!

Two Questions: Resolutions and Selling Contusions!

  

Martinex1: Happy New Year one and all!  We will ring in 2018 with a smile on our face and a dance in our hearts!  Cheers to you all and may you and your families have a wondrous new year!

With that said, here are two questions (with some follow-ups) for our group!

QUESTION 1:  What if any New Year's Resolution have you made?  (I know... I know some of you dislike resolutions so if that is the case let me put a more casual spin on it...)  What chore do you hope to finish this year?  What comic purchase do you hope to make this year?  What movie are you looking forward to this year?  What book would you like to read or complete this year?  Are there any big events coming for you this year? And while we are at it.. what books, movies, and comics that your read in the last year would you recommend to others for this new year?

Here are two of my "easy to achieve" resolutions:

1) Read some Marvel comics that I have not before, including but not limited to Marvel Classics!

 2) Actually hold and see an issue of GRIT - that long advertised publication!

3) Exercise and get in shape (the old fashioned way - by reading books and kicking chairs)!

QUESTION 2: Some of us may sell some comics in 2018 so if you sold comic books in the past, what was the hardest part of that process?  How long did it take to finally give in and part with some books? What was your best sale and what was your worst failure in selling?  What would you recommend if giving advice on selling?  And what did you wish you never sold?  Have you ever bought anything back or replaced it?

So there you have it Two Questions (errr... more like a dozen questions) to kick off the new year.  We have time, so let's get a rousing conversation going while recuperating from the midnight festivities.