Today: Best and Worst What If Stories! (Not characters we cannot stand -save that for Thursday)!
Tuesday, March 6, 2018
Follow the Leader: Episode 63: Best and Worst What-If Stories!
Today: Best and Worst What If Stories! (Not characters we cannot stand -save that for Thursday)!
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Who were the most annoying Bronze Age characters that should have been killed off (permanently) ? I'm mainly thinking of comics but you can also include TV shows, cartoons, films etc.
Aunt May
Odin
The original X-Men
Magneto
The Red Skull (Magneto and the Red Skull were my least-favourite Marvel villains, I thought they were so boring).
Silver Surfer
Shalla-Bal
Warlock
Hercules
(I'll probably think of more later)
On TV any cartoon sidekick like Gadzooky or Scrappy Doo. And this'll mean nothing to anybody outside the UK, but Mr. Hodges in "Dad's Army"...ggrrrr!
HOLD That Thought!!! This topic (characters we don't like) is very similar to a topic we have coming on Thursday! Though worded a bit differently, it would lead us down a similar path. Rather than discuss it twice, can you pick another topic Colin?
Don't delete your comments, Let's consider this a type of preview. Great minds think alike.
For Thursday I'm thinking about how Rick Jones annoyed the crapola out of me... for Thursday, lol.
Ok, what were the best or worst "What If" stories ? Is there a "What If" tale that should have been told?
Because of UK distribution it was difficult to get hold of "What If" - double-sized issues were impossible to find until 1981 (where I lived anyway) and, of course, all issues of "What If" were double-sized. But two that I did have and really enjoyed were "What If Phoenix Had Not Died?" which ends with the Phoenix-Force expanding outwards from Earth and slowly consuming the entire universe, and "What If Iron Man Had Been Trapped In The Time Of King Arthur?" (following on from the events of Iron Man #150) which ends with King Arthur's death and Tony Stark being crowned "King Anthony of Britain". It was a sort of happy ending, except that Iron Man never returns to the 20th century.
What If tales I'd like to have read?
What about "What If J. Jonah Jameson was bitten by a radioactive spider?"
or
"What If The Fantastic Four Had Received Each Others' Powers?" - if Reed had become the Thing how could he have invented anything with those huge clumsy hands. Or imagine poor Sue as the Thing!
I only collected "What If.." thru #20 and had fun reading them all.
My top 2; What If Conan walked the earth today?
What if the Avengers had never been?
I'm sure whatever new story I could come up with has probably been done over the decades.
I also like DC's version of What If, Elseworlds' Generations.
Kind of a "What If Superhero's aged in real time?"
Martinex, worst and BEST of the What If stories!
Ok, well this is sort of to your question and I have truly pondered it! What if D.C. Hadn't litigated Fawcett to death and Fawcett continued to publish Captain Marvel. Marvel was , from what I recall, a more popular comic than Superman and selling over 1,000,000 issues a week in the1940s?
Another What If story I loved was "What If Aunt May Had Been Bitten By The Radioactive Spider?" - that was a back-up story (I don't remember what the main story was) and was obviously tongue-in-cheek :D
Aunt May also became the herald of Galactus in Marvel Team-Up I think, but that was just a dream. Aunt May was really cool and funny in both those stories - so unlike her usual self!
In the same vein... what if Timely had launched Fantastic Four in 1945 in the format as we know it from the Silvet Age? Would it have saved the superheroes and prevented the plague of crime and horror comics?
Charlie, why are the horror comics a "plague"? Nowadays they are considered as classics!
IMHO I've read a bunch of horror and crime from the 40s and 50s and they weren't appropriate for kids though some of them were of higher quality for sure. So because they took over the newstands and displaced superheroes en masse I likened it to a plague. It just fit for me, lol. A lot of the EC horror is top notch for certain.
Colin, some of the ones you mentioned were, in fact, done - to some extent.
What If? #6 covers the FF with different powers question, in this case, Sue gains Reed's stretchy powers, Ben grows leathery demon wings, Johnny becomes a metallic strong man (kind of like Colossus) and Reed becomes a disembodied brain.
What If? #7 has three shorter stories, exploring what would have happened if three other people had gotten spider powers instead of Peter Parker: Betty Brant, Flash Thompson and Jonah's son John Jameson.
Personally, I would actually put What If Phoenix had not died story among those I really didn't like as much. Basically, it doesn't really say anything different from the actual Dark Phoenix saga as it played out in the regular series: Jean gets almost infinite power and it basically drives her mad, except in the What If story she doesn't kill herself, but rather goes on a rampage, destroys the Earth and then everything in her path across the universe. I thought it would have been more interesting to explore the possibility of her coming to terms with her power and try to pull off something like Korvac, i.e., become some kind of benevolent-in-her-own-mind god.
On the other side, I totally agree with Killraven that the Avengers story (from issue #3) and the Conan story (#13) are among the better ones. I'd also add the two Daredevil stories (what if he had become an agent of SHIELD in #28, and what if Elektra had not died in #35, both done by Frank Miller), the Fantastic Four as Challengers of the Unknown (i.e., what if they had not acquired super-powers, in issue #36, by Byrne), and What if Shang Chi had remained loyal to Fu Manchu (#16). Issue #38 is also interesting in that it has three stories that explore possible alternate futures for some of the Avengers, Captain America and Daredevil, when they're old and gray.
Also agree with Killraven about Elseworlds, not just Generations but the whole line. I really love so many of those.
I liked "What If Uncle Ben Had Lived?". The only one I remember disliking was the last issue, "What If Loki Had Found Thor's Hammer?"; it was boring as hell, but maybe that's because I never read Thor at the time, so it didn't mean much to me.
My favorite was probably the Avengers -Kree Skrull War issue (#20 I think). I liked the changes made and actually felt the ending was more satisfying than the original with an armada of heroes launched into space for the final battle rather than the Rick Jones’ Deus ex machina.
This was the issue that supposedly changed the plot of Avengers 200 for the worse because the stories were similar, and Avengers 200 needed a quick rewrite. Whatever the reason, Avengers 200 is really horrible on so many levels. Although that in turn gave us Avengers Annual 10 which is stellar.
I will say in general that I liked how What If brought me up to speed on Marvel history. Even if I missed those key issues, What If did a nice recap and explanation of the impactful events. From Wolverine and the Hulk to Gwen Stacy’s Death, I thought they handled the core story well and I learned a lot.
My least favorite (despite my hope it would be fantastic) was the issue with Ghost Rider, Spider Woman, and Captain Marvel as villains. It was a great concept in that the heroes followed their initially evil path, but the execution was bad and the page count did not give enough space for the stories to flourish.
Oh and I would have liked to see...
“What If Kang had chosen life for Ravonna in Avengers 71?”
“What if Goliath was killed by some other Yellowjacket in Avengers 59”
“What if the Vision was really the Human Torch?”
What if the Hellfire Club had succeeded in making Jean the Black Queen?”
“What if the Crusaders (from Invaders 14) never disbanded?”
“What if Reed let Galactus die?”
“What if Namor’s Surface World invasion was Successful?”
“What if Team America was Evil?”
“What if Team America was Evil?”
Would have been an improvement, believe me...
Edo, thanks for the information about What If #6 and #7.
Martinex, I'd love to read "What If Namor's Surface World Invasion Was Successful?" - what the heck would a sea-dwelling race actually DO with the surface world?
And thanks for all the comments so far :)
I actually think the “what if ghost rider was a villain?” Is pretty lazy. My brother and I LOVED the outrageous comedy issue of What if though, like why if they were all based in Toledo and it’s just them hanging out and ordering a pizza. I know it’s a little off topic, you just had me remembering it.
A tad late, but better late than never!
Good topic, Colin. "What If" was one of those Bronze age iconic titles, and imho, varied widely in quality. Some were wonderful, others quite forgettable. My favorites have already been mentioned: Conan in the 20th. Century (issue 13) and the humor issue (34). It's tough to make a specific call on the others, as it's been decades since I read any of them.
As for 'new stories', how about "What if Sue Storm chose Sub-Mariner instead of Reed Richards?"
What if Captain America had been revived today was by far my favorite of the first series.
Red, Sue Storm and Namor being married was covered in issue #21, which was actually a sequel to the first issue, when - at the end, Sue did in fact choose Namor over Reed.
Thanks Edo! Like I said, it's been too many years...
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