Redartz: Hi gang! Tuesday's here, so you know what that means. Yes, it's time for you to step up and offer a subject for all us Bronzers to banter about. Aaaaand, it also means I've got another extra quickie topic for you.
This week I've been reading the first 20 or so issues of John Byrne's "Alpha Flight". First time I have perused these since they were published over thirty years ago (30 years? Unbelievable). These were among the last comics I would have bought before my several-year departure from comics. So they are mostly new to me, although some vaguely familiar bits stand out. Anyway, the series is great- excellent stories, and some of Byrne's best artwork. So my question is simply: discuss John Byrne. Love his stuff? Hate it? Ever met him? Would you want to? Share your thoughts about Byrne while you work up a Topic For The Week. Salud!
23 comments:
Ciao Everyone!
It's finally a beautiful day in Chicago that reminds one of summer! And summer reminds me of comics, specifically SUMMER ANNUALS!
Which was your fav?
And, did John Byrne do any Summer Annuals? Did you have a fav? (I have to imagine so, but Charlie sort of punched out of comics around 1974ish so...)
My fav annual was Amazing Spider Man # 8 with "The Shocker" from 1971. I was a just a young 10-year-old rascal at the time but that "Big 64 Pages" at only .25 cents left stirred it up and I had to have it!
So I talked my 8-year-old brother into buying it while I bought another one, getting a two-fer if you will! (Anyone know where I can find a list of the other Annuals that summer to see what I may have bought?)
It's no secret to any of the regulars here or at our previous digs that I'm a very big fan of John Byrne: he's probably my favorite artist, and among my favorite writers. So to answer the questions posed by Red, yes I generally love his stuff (and, hence, I don't hate it). Never met him, but not really sure that I'd want to. The persona he often projects at his own site (Byrne Robotics) comes across as abrasive and prickly, although I've heard mixed accounts about him when he did make convention appearances and so forth. Some say he was was quite pleasant to interact with, others have found him off-putting.
And tying it to the other topic, yes, Byrne did a number of notable annuals, among them the art in Hulk Annual #7 (guest-starring Iceman and Angel) and Spider-man Annual #13, and he wrote and drew Fantastic Four Annual #17, my favorite FF Annual and probably my favorite that Byrne did. Other favorites are Avengers Annual #13, in which he inked Steve Ditko's pencils, and Hulk Annual #14, for which he wrote the script (the art is by Sal Buscema).
Otherwise, I also associate summer with the annuals, and man, I loved them so much. I could go on at length about all of my favorite annuals (and I recall doing so once in one of those DIY posts at the BAB a few years ago), but I'll just say that my very favorite is X-men Annual #3 - in which they fight and then help out Arkon. To me, that is just the perfect annual: an epic yet done-in-one story with some great battle scens and spectacular art (by Perez and Austin).
A sentimental favorite is Spider-man Annual #10, which is the first annual I ever had - and it also has a great story. Spidey vs. the Fly, art by Gil Kane. Great stuff.
Charlie, I'm glad you're having a nice Summer day in Chicago - here in the UK we are enduring one of the wettest Junes on record :(
Sadly I've never read any of the Marvel annuals because none were available where I live.
I loved John Byrne's work on the X-Men and the Fantastic Four - until he introduced those horrible new FF costumes. The dreadful new costumes appeared around the same time that I abandoned Marvel comics (until I eventually returned in 2007).
D'OH !!!
Charlie, I've just read your comment on Steve Does Comics about British summer annuals, DC Thomson etc. We called them "Summer Specials" not summer annuals - in the UK annuals were (and still are) hardback books traditionally given as Christmas presents. Marvel UK published the hardback annuals but not Summer specials - but I bought various DC Thomson summer specials such as the Beano, Topper and Beezer :)
I don't know. There's been some good annuals, some bad annuals, and some great annuals--- but I just don't know if any of them have ever captured the lightning-in-a-bottle magic of Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1: "The Sinister Six"--- yeah? Right?? An already well-used issue was in my possession for awhile just as I was learning to read. . . and it was one of my earliest big "hooks" into the Marvel Universe. It made my heart chug. The clunky, forced cameo appearances of other MU characters seemed almost impossibly cool in my imagination. And those full-page splash battle panels were incredible. Happily, it exists in reprint form, so it's back in my possession again-!
I'm guessing that producing high-quality annuals year after year simply wasn't a sustainable practice. Especially if they were being done by the same writer/artist teams that were doing the monthly books as well. They were great for a few years-- then they dwindled to reprint-heavy fare-- then disappeared. Then they returned with a bang (under Jim Shooter at Marvel, IIRC?), and were quite good for a bit-- then they started to rely on second-string/"new" talent-- and then they devolved into several years' worth of those awful, awful multi-title Crossover Events which awkwardly tried to create one storyline over four titles' annuals. Oh, I hated those. Clunky, forced stories-- tons of audition-type back-up stories-- and it was during that era of bad color-process experimentation that made everything kinda painful to look at. More than a few times I found myself asking, "why am I reading this? Why did I spend money on this, even??".
Oo-- John Byrne? Gosh, I just mentioned him 'round here not too long ago, didn't I? (DOOM PATROL reboot-). At his best, he remains one of my favorites-- gonna totally echo Edo on that score. He's not without limitations (distinction between different female faces-- it's almost like a blind-spot for him-), but by golly his facility for sequential visual story-telling is just about w/out peer. His time on FF is one of my favorite runs on any title. And I honestly got used to the new dark uniforms pretty quickly-- didn't hate them at all. Loved his art on X-Men, of course. And I wish he'd stuck it out with ALPHA FLIGHT for awhile longer-- although I think the weaknesses in his writing were beginning to show there. It never felt nearly as focused or fully thought-through as his FF run. Much like the problems I had w/ DOOM PATROL. Well, and NEXT MEN, now that I think of it-- I was also really glad when he abruptly abandoned ship on THE HULK right after he took it on. He didn't seem to have a feel for the character at all, IMO, and I had a sense he was heading down the "focus on the supporting cast" road-- which I never cared for.
Annnnnd with that, I have to go fix the car window---
Possibly back later, eh?
HB
Seeing as Charlie asked over at SteveDoesComics for input on British annuals - clearly part of some cunning plan of his to take over this thread - they were large hardback books, associated with Xmas rather than summer and generally not very good.
But there were exceptions, particularly in the first couple of years of the '80s, when Marvel UK decided to go with a Captain America annual with the Steranko stories - all together in a hardback, a much better use of the format than the random reprints they usually went with - and they also did Neal Adams' X-Men annuals two years in a row.
Best annual ever - the first ever Dredd in '81. Brian Bolland cover, and stories by the world beating team (perhaps not so well known round these parts) of John Wagner and Mike McMahon, in full colour.
John Byrne? He did some of the best work at Marvel in the late 70s - really liked Iron Fist, especially the few issues he did with Luke Cage - but Byrne increasingly seemed to think the the way to make his mark was to be Jack Kirby but better, which he wasn't. Admittedly his FF was quite good early on - he did an annual Charlie! - but his OMAC and Fourth World over at DC? Fail.
Seriously, who thinks Darkseid needed an origin?
And don't get me started on his Superman...
-sean
Hello!
When you specify "summer" annuals, I think of stuff I picked up on family vacation, and the stand-outs that spring to mind are Marvel Team-Up Annual #4 (Spider-Man, Daredevil, Power Man & Iron Fist, and Moon Knight...a "street-level" dream team!) and Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7 (Thing, Hulk, Thor, Sasquatch, Colossus, Wonder Man, Sub-Mariner, Doc Samson...a "strong guy" dream team!). Both impulse buys that were wonderfully satisfying!
John Byrne's name is probably in more comics that I own than any other creator, discounting ed-in-chief Jim Shooter and "Stan Lee presents..!"). Even when I was just reading my older brother's comics before I started collecting on my own, looking back I've seen he was involved in most of my favourite first-impressions of Marvel heroes (like the Nefaria trilogy!). To say nothing of his X-Men and Alpha Flight, my favourite stuff of his...
When I did start noticing and following creators, I followed Byrne straight over to DC to catch his Superman run, which opened up a whole new universe to me.
In short, his work has meant a lot to me. His behaviour on the internet and with parts of fandom does not sound very good, so I choose to just not think about it and separate the man from the work.
'Cause that work was something else!
-david p.
David P-- I do agree with it probably being a good idea to separate the art from the artist in John Byrne's case. And I don't think I've ever NOT liked something he's drawn ever, anywhere. Although I could probably have done without his breezily explaining that the reason he's able to produce so much is because he figured out he could just draw in ink from the get-go--- because he "almost never erases anything", so he just skips penciling altogether. He really comes across as Wolfgang in "Amadeus" in those kinds of moments. . . You can easily acknowledge his brilliance, but ya still kinda wanna strangle 'im. . .
Did anyone else buy his NAMOR title in the 90's? I've never re-read it--- but I remember thinking it was not bad at all. . . and he was experimenting with some different texture-appliques in the art, IIRC. I should probably revisit it. . .
How was his Superman run regarded by the public in general? He did stick with the character for quite sometime, didn't he?
HB
John Byrne is a complicated topic. As far as the man goes, every time I think of him I remember that line for line from the film "Mosquito Coast" where the father is described as "the worst kind of pain in the neck: a know-it-all who's sometimes right." From reading his comments in his Forum on-line, he knows a lot about comics, undoubtedly. He's impressive. Everything he says outside of comics is less solid, and yes, abrasive.
I'd say, in his writing, his reach always exceeds his grasp. He reverences that awesome feeling you got in the Bronze Age (the "O. Henry twist") when a story has an ironic turn. But he isn't as good at that as he thinks, and a lot of them fall flat. One example: revealing that Doom's face wasn't horribly scarred in the accident at Reed's lab. Did I need to know that? Nope. Does it add to the story? Not really. Doom's scarring is overdetermined as the monks apply the still blazing hot mask there anyway. What's the effect? Byrne gets to rewrite a classic story that didn't really need it. He did it with Spider-Man. He did it with Super-Man. He revisited and revised any number of FF stories, both in FF and the whole Marvel universe in The Lost Generation. And a lot of them didn't really work for me. Like he was tracing over something that was fine on it's own, or only slightly improved.
Speaking of tracing, I recently picked up X-Men 118. Byrne's art, despite his denials, relied a lot on Terry Austin's inks during that run, and X-Men 118 shows that. His early work on Doomsday+1 shows it, and I think his later work does as well.
I've collected a lot of his stuff, and if this seems a bit negative, I don't think I'm alone. I've noticed a distinct trend where his creations get killed or end up badly in the hands of other creators, most notably "Mattie" Franklin.
I that Uncanny X-Men run is one of my favorite in comics, but I'm not sure spending the time since chasing that high has been worth it.
I like Byrne's art and I generally like his writing too. He had a habit of revamping characters to suit his own ideas; sometimes (FF, She-Hulk, Alpha Flight) it worked, sometimes (Wonder Woman, Superman) the results were mixed, and sometimes (Spider Man Chapter One, Doom Patrol) it was so radical subsequent writers just completely ignored it.
Some Annuals were great, but a lot of the time it seemed like the Annuals were used for characters or concepts that weren't quite ready for prime time. As for personal favourites, DC had some cool Annuals in the 80s with important stories (the Judas Contract finale, Great Darkness Saga, Cheshire's first appearance, all three All-Star Squadron Annuals were pretty good). I loved Amazing Spider-Man 18, with Scorpion busting up Jonah's wedding to Marla Madison. The two-parter (Avengers and MTIO Annuals) in the late 70s with Thanos was a great story too.
Early Byrne was alright. His X-Men, iron Fist & FF were great reads.
I seem to remember he might have did some work for Charleston. A back-up strip in E-Man called "Rogg", or something, about a robot.
Fine topic choice,Charlie! Those Summer Annuals bring back some fine memories (at any rate, those from the Silver and Bronze ages). As for your question about the Annuals of 1971- check out "Mike's Amazing World of Comics", and use the Newsstand to look at all the comics available in a given month. To get you started, those on sale in June include Iron Man Annual, Sgt. Fury Annual and X-Men Annual (oh, and also the Archie Annual).
Have to agree with HB, Spiderman Annual 1 sets the standard for the Perfect Summer Annual. Fortunately, the 1st. Amazing Spiderman Omnibus includes it in totality, with all those great special features.
That said, there were other later annuals that rank high for me. Obviously, Avengers Annual 7 and Marvel Two in One Annual 2 (the Thanos Saga) are biggies. But to choose a few lesser faves: The Iron Man annual by Steve Gerber where he fought Molecule Man and Man-Thing. Some typical Gerber weirdness.
Fantastic Four annual 11, when they met the Invaders. Nice, solid bronze age goodness.
Conan annual 1- yes, all reprint, but What A Cover!
X-Men annual 7, with the Impossible Man. His appearance as Galactus was priceless.
Oh, and one more; actually of more recent vintage: Untold Tales of Spicerman Annual 1, from 1996. I did a review of this gem early in my blogging career back at the hallowed Bronze Age Babies. A fun, old-school annual well worth looking for. Shouldn't set you back more than a couple dollars.
KD- yes, early Byrne at Charlton, good call. I liked his "Doomsday Plus 1". And yes, his back up "Rog 2000"...
Colin J- it's heartbreaking to hear you've missed out on those annuals. Some were forgettable, but many were terrific. Send me an email, maybe I could send you a couple just for fun...
When annuals were pretty much reprints I was all over them. Loved reading classic stories I'd missed.
The early Marvel's Greatest Comics & Marvel Tales were a top pick for me also.
Red, thanks for your kind offer about the annuals but I hope you won't be offended if I politely decline. I'm not sure I'd agree it was heartbreaking that I never read any and you can't really miss what you never had :)
But can I ask you a question I meant to ask last week:
have you always lacked a sense of smell or did the loss happen gradually over many years?
Colin- I must have had some sense as a child, as I have some vague memories . But by school age, it was gone.
Reminds me of an ironic situation in college. At art school, one year I had a roommate who was color blind (yes, a painting major). I'd help him mix his colors, and he'd check the gas stove for me ( as I couldn't, of course, smell a gas leak)...
If anybody is interested, Marvel is about to release the first two graphic-novel collections of the new Conan - Conan The Barbarian Volume 1 on July 4th and Savage Sword Of Conan Volume 1 on July 25th (those are the dates for the e-book versions but I assume the physical versions will be published at the same time). I intend to download both of the e-book volumes which will be the first new Conan material from Marvel that I've read since about 1983 (but I have read lots of Dark Horse's Conan in the last decade or so). I discovered Conan back in 1975 thanks to Marvel (UK) so Conan's return to Marvel is a big deal for me.
Every month I buy a magazine called FORTEAN TIMES which covers UFOs, ghosts, weird phenomena etc, etc. This month's issue featured an article about "The Black Flash" who terrorized Provincetown, Massachusetts in the late 1930s/early '40s. The article included a photo of a Provincetown street taken in 1937 and there was a large banner draped across the street saying BEANO - FREE ADMISSION and an arrow pointing to a nearby building. I was quite amazed because it was the first time I'd seen the word "Beano" unconnected with the British comic The Beano, launched in 1938. I know that a beano is short for the word beanfeast (both words are rarely used nowadays) but according to Wikipedia beano and beanfeast are hardly known in America - yet here was a photo taken in Massachusetts in 1937 where the word "Beano" is prominent on a banner. So I ask my American friends (those who are still reading) - are beano and beanfeast familiar words to you?
I mentioned in my first comment that we Brits are having a wet June but that has all changed. In the last few days the weather has become sunny and warm (but with a nice cool breeze). On the European continent they've recently had a ferocious heatwave with temperatures up to 40 degrees Centigrade. I get uncomfortable when the temperature reaches 25 degrees centigrade so 40 degrees would be horrendous !!
John Byrne is my favorite artist for his '70s output alone. As a kid, I was always thrilled to find an issue of Marvel Team-Up that featured his pencils. George Perez was a close second. Annuals remind me of summer, and I have to agree with a previous poster that X-Men Annual 3 is one of my top 3. It is exactly what a summer annual should be: one over-sized story that almost felt like a vacation for the characters as well: an adventure in a strange land.
Colin, speaking as a born-and-raised American West (or Left) Coaster, I can tell you that I'm completely unfamiliar with the terms beano and beanfest in the way you're using them. Otherwise, I know about the British comic, and in the US, 'Beano' is the brand-name of an over-the-counter anti-flatulence pill.
As for that heatwave in continental Europe, yep, we got hit with it here in Croatia, although it didn't get as hot as it did in France. Here in Zagreb, it peaked on Thursday, with temps hitting the high 30s Celsius and humidity that was off the charts (which is the norm for summers here). It cooled down a bit after that, so I was even able to do some yardwork yesterday without melting into a puddle, but it's still pretty friggin' hot.
Edo, I love how Beano is an anti-flatulence pill in the US :D
I have many fond memories of Annuals! MTIO (Starlin-Warlock-Thanos), Amazing Spider-Man (Frank Miller-Doc Ock), all the All-Star Squadrons, the Legion Annuals, and DC Comics Presents (Superman Earth-1, Superman Earth-2!)
I was mad for Byrne's work on X-Men and Avengers. I think his pencils are always improved by someone else's inking. I cannot think of any of his scripts that I have liked. I know that I am in the minority, but I did not, and have not on subsequent efforts decades later, enjoy his run on Fantastic Four. As a penciller, he was a very good panel-designer, and paced the stories well, although he relied on many stock faces (wide mouths and jaws) and poses (arms bent at elbows away from the body, hands not in fists). As a writer, he seemed to delight in destruction. Selenarch noted above that it seemed that other writers destroyed much of what Byrne created, but Byrne did that to what writers previous to him had done. (The Vision/Human Torch)
Finally, Colin, read BEANO as "Bingo." As I understand it, Massachusetts laws then, forbid places like churches to host Bingo games. So the churches called it BEANO. They weren't breaking the law, and they could have their games! Then, I think the name BEANO stuck in many places.
Bernard- thanks for commenting! Yes, DC had some fine annuals too. Batman had a great one featuring two stories, one with Penguin and one with Clayface.
Colin- Beano, heh heh. I must admit from the first time I heard discussions of the UK comic strip, all my mind could picture was that anti-gas tablet and it's advertising. Guess it's all a matter of what we were exposed to growing up!
I'd honestly never heard of Beano tablets at all--- until the company made a huge (for them, I suppose) marketing campaign push. . . on radio only. . . using twilight-of-his-career George Kennedy (never exactly a "star" in the first place) as their "celebrity" pitchman. The couple of spots were embarrassingly prominent for a few weeks-- and then disappeared. Honestly, I thought it HAD to be a gag the first time I heard it. . .
HB
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