Redartz: Sorry to be 'asleep at the wheel' here today, friends. A bout of flu knocked me out of commission but am back vertical again; no worries. Go to it, crew!
As HB doesn't have a topic - what about vintage comedy acts? A new film about Laurel & Hardy has just been released so what are your opinions/memories of this legendary duo or any other vintage comedy act? Are they still funny? Have they dated?
The BBC regularly showed Laurel & Hardy films and I was a big fan (still am) and Harold Lloyd silent shorts seemed to appear on TV quite a lot but I can't recall ever seeing The Marx Brothers, The Three Stooges, Abbot & Costello or Charlie Chaplin so either they weren't broadcast on British TV or I've got a terrible memory. Perhaps other UK readers can shed some light on the matter...
Two facts about Laurel & Hardy:
1) The first official Laurel & Hardy film was called 'The Second Hundred Years' and it was released on October 8th 1927 - just four days before my father was born.
2) In 1975 the song "Trail Of The Lonesome Pine" reached No.2 in the UK singles chart. It wasn't a cover-version but the actual recording from the 1937 film 'Way Out West'. To the kids of 1975 Stan & Ollie's duet would have seemed like a relic from ancient history but it was a mere 38 years old - like a song from 1981 becoming a hit in the current Top 40 (and several songs older than 1981 re-entered the Top 40 at Christmas).
It's zero, going down (and only down), to - 25 F in Chicago. Wind chill??? Who cares, LOL. But I promise all that I WILL go outside in my bathing suit tonight! If you want a photo, let me know! (One of those things you have to say you did!)
Colin - To the best of my ability, we exposed our kids to B&W like Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein (and Dracula and the Werewolf), the Marx Brothers, 3 Stooges, etc.
If a child is not exposed to B&W they seem to have zero tolerance for it as they age, from what we've seen. And I do mean zero.
BUT - we never watched L&H. Just never crossed paths. I think L&H are probably forgotten for the most parts...
I am 57 and I only saw L&H in my childhood at various events hosted by groups like the Knights of Columbus, Boy Scouts, etc. where some guy would show them on 8 mm (?) reel to reel. They were indeed funny, but even in the 1960s L&H and the Keystone Cops in particular seemed "old fashioned" as compared to the others.
For some reason, if I was watching L&H, the Keystone Cops were never far behind, or vice versa, LOL.
Charlie, I'm amazed you had so little exposure to Laurel & Hardy and that you think they are "probably forgotten". Here in the UK the new film "Stan & Ollie" was #1 at the box-office. Probably a lot of the audience grew up watching Laurel & Hardy on TV as I did.
I've never seen a Keystone Cops film but my father remembered them from his childhood and he thought they were hilarious.
As a very young youngster (early elementary years), it was Abbott & Costello who reigned supreme, with the Three Stooges in a strong (but definite) second place. Then everyone else (Laurel & Hardy, Marx Brothers). But this was based almost exclusively on everyone's feature film offerings, 'cause our local TV channels (all UHF) were big on filling air time with old, low-royalty films. I think AFRICA SCREAMS might have been on near-weekly rotation sometimes. . .
L & H's feature films were not their artistic high-light. And the 3 Stooges films were all, of course, later in their career w/ Curly Joe DeRita as the final "third" Stooge, so I never had a sense of what they were like at the height of their fame. It wasn't until I was in high school that we had a hilariously low-budget, wing-and-a-prayer, independent little channel stumble onto our local airwaves that we got a glimpse of the bounty of shorts made by Laurel & Hardy and the Stooges ('cause I suspect that they were public domain by then. . . ). There was the "Curly" I'd heard of,sure--- but who was this "Shemp" guy?? And who in the WORLD was this "Joe Besser"??
There were also a couple of solid and endearing L & H clip-style retrospectives narrated by Fred Allen that provided a wonderful insight into their work and craft and friendship. And all of this cheap, disregarded, half-forgotten material gave me an enormous new regard for The Boys, I have to say.
And it finally occurred to me that I'd been a HUGE fan of theirs for most of my childhood without ever realizing it. Many here will recall that I have an unabashed and loudly-declared love for ol' GILLIGAN'S ISLAND, yep? Welp, there's just no question that the Skipper/Gilligan pairing (and execution) was hugely influenced by/based-on L&H. Not as an imitation or copy, though-- but much more as a loving homage and then extrapolation. Alan Hale Jr is amazingly deft at utilizing some of Babe Hardy's shtick and making it his own (one quick example: The Skipper is the only character that regularly "checks in" with the camera to see if WE can see what an idiot his partner can be. This was a primary go-to for Ollie as well---).
And--- I'll rattle on all day about this if I'm not careful. Okay, enough, enough--- everybody get back to work. . .
Growing up in the '60s in Missouri, it was hard not to be exposed to the slapstick antics of The 3 Stooges, Laurel & Hardy, the Bowery Boys and so many others. I think there were concerns of the 'violence' of the Stooges and of the coarse language - Moe calling the imbeciles, stupid, etc - but I don't think any of our parents thought anything of it. Surprisingly, it wasn't the slapstick that I appreciated, but the clever word play. Very underrated, I think.
For some reason, I wasn't exposed to The Marx Brothers movies til I was in college. Oh, sure, I'd seen Groucho all over TV with You Bet Your Life reruns and appearances on talk shows. But once I'd seen the '20s and '30s classics, I was hooked! I've got lots of books by and about the Marx Bros and will watch their movies often. The puns, sarcasm and clever dialog is so wonderfully done!
I agree about the Marx Brothers ... classic stuff. I also like Abbott and Costello, but Laurel and Hardy never really grabbed me, and I find the Three Stooges more annoying than funny. I guess I go more for dialogue than physical comedy.
Charlie, it's -25 F here in Saskatchewan right now, so I know exactly what you're talking about!
L&H were at their peak in the 1930s, when they were doing short subjects for Hal Roach's company. Most of the feature length movies that they made in that same period were not bad, but some of them suffered from obvious padding, and would have been better as two-reel shorts.
Their later features at Fox and MGM were blah. And, instead of being dumb in a likable kind of way, they were often portrayed as so stupid that they were more annoying than funny.
Similarly, the Marx Brothers were at their peak in the early 1930s, when they made their first five movies at Paramount. Their later movies at MGM and UA suffered from intrusive musical numbers and romantic subplots that interrupted the comedy. (Although Groucho always said that the first two MGM films, A Night at the Opera and A Day at the Races, were "the best two pictures we ever made.")
Abbott & Costello were sometimes mildly amusing, but I would rate them at least a notch below Laurel and Hardy.
I loved the Three Stooges. When I was a little kid, I would see their feature films (like The Outlaws Is Coming and Have Rocket-Will Travel), and I would read the Gold Key comics, all with Curly Joe. And I would see their old 1930s shorts, with Curly (Howard) on early Saturday morning TV. At the time, I didn't realize (maybe I was just a dumb kid) that "Curly" and "Curly Joe" were two different guys. Then I got confused when they started showing the ones with Shemp and Joe Besser. Years later, I read Leonard Maltin's book Movie Comedy Teams, and got it all sorted out. And, now, Shemp is my favorite "third Stooge."
BTW, Shemp and Joe Besser were both in Africa Screams.
It is fair to say that, in the USA due to local broadcasting prerogative, Charlie in Chicago likely saw something different than HB in Michigan or Disney in Missouri in the 60s and 70s.
I think if our then-local Chicago stations (notably WGN) showed more L&H I would have been a bigger L&H fan. But none did.
WGN showed the Marx Brothers all week, once a year. So... I liked Marx Brothers. WGN also showed a ton of the Bowery Boys and Micky Rooney and Judy Garland's "Andy Hardy" movies and whatever old, funny B&W was available I suppose. WFLD a local station had non-stop Stooges. Both stations showed the odd A&C movie.
BUT there simply was no L&H I recall (Doug? Marti? Any thoughts on that, LOL?)
HB - your comparison of L&H to G's Island left me dumfounded! Wow was that spot on!
B.t.w my parents had to ban 3 Stooges in our house when they caught me taking the saw to my younger brother's head, LOL. (I was like 6 and he was 4.) They lightened up and then caught him taking a hammer to my head. That was that!
CH 47 I vaguely remember watching Laurel & Hardy with my Dad. I have a sense we did watch them regularly because I really recall that he liked them. And I know I’ve seen them moving the piano in “The Music Box”. Thinking back I am guessing it was on PBS Channel 11. It’s the only place I can imagine they showed L&H shorts.
Excellent conversation, gang! Let me echo Charlie in praise for your L/H -Gilligan comparison, HB. Inspired!
I knew Laurel and Hardy mostly because of my parents, who would occasionally watch them on tv, and would reminisce at some length about enjoying them in their youths. I liked their short features, but was definitely more interested in the 3 Stooges. In central Indiana, on Saturday mornings, there was a local kid's show host by the alliterative name of Harlowe Hickenlooper. He showed Stooges films each week, and I loved 'em. That love only grew in later years. I never fail to remind my youngest son that when he was born, my wife and I had the Stooges playing on tv in her room. While she delivered! Ok, it was mostly my choice, she was otherwise preoccupied. Anyway, I tell my son that the Stooges surely had some unorthodox influence upon his development...
College introduced me to the Marx Brothers and Charlie Chaplin. I took a film class as an elective, and was so inspired that a couple friends and I started a weekly film festival at our art school. One film we featured was Chaplin's "Gold Rush". Ohhh, good times...
Marti - I am simply perplexed... I have to imagine L&H were on the tube but I have zero recollection when. WGN was pretty repetitive with their programming so one would think I'd recall seeing it.
But as I sit here today, I only recall seeing the 8 mm tapes at kids events and it always seemed like L&H were paired with the Keystone Cops which I think were actually silent films? And KC were always running "fast motion." I am guessing they were originally recorded at perhaps 14 frames per second or something before Hollywood standardized at 24 and thus were always running fast? That's just conjecture as I am not expert in those things, lol.
Maybe Doug can shed some light on this L&H mystery since he grew up around here?
Or, perhaps HB? He was on the other side of Lake Michigan but I seem to recall him saying he would pick up WGN from Chicago?
Oh, currently here along the ol' Ohio River it's a balmy 25 degrees F; but the mercury is falling fast tonight. Forecasts predict about 5 degrees by morning, not including substantial wind chill. Charlie, Doug, Marti, and all you Northerners have my sympathy...
Oh yeah, CH47, there's no doubt that all of our little local stations varied wildly, region to region, in what they tossed out there for there "cheap" slots.
For me, as you might've guessed, L&H stand head and shoulders above everyone else discussed here. I definitely grew into them. Abbott&Costello probably fell the farthest, although I can still enjoy them. They were brilliant, but they never found a way to grow artistically-- and relied HEAVILY on slightly-altered variations of their best shtick. Their radio program (which was quite popular) rather emphasizes that weakness, I think. And-- while Bud was a fantastic Straight-Man-- it did trap their act into the same patterns over & over & over.
The 3 Stooges were just so flippin' violent (when I finally did start seeing the shorts) that it soured me on them as an adult. Too much, too mean, too self-indulgent. HOWEVER-- they were also capable of much more. . .and those late feature films remain my favorites of their catalog. 3 STOOGES MEET HERCULES is a flippin' hoot, IMO, and is more chase-scenes and situations than pokes in the eye.
And the Marx Bros are almost their own genre, really. The amount of careless, raw talent in three of those brothers is impossible to overstate, y'know? (And almost diametrically opposed to the black-hole of non-talent from poor ol' Gummo & Zeppo. . . yikes!!). Didn't really come to them until adulthood, as my wife was a big fan.
IIUC, silent films were recorded at something like 14 frames per second, and later, the industry standardized at 24, so old 1920s movies can look jerky when they are played on modern equipment, unless adjustments are made.
The 3 Stooges definitely toned down the violence in their later films. In an interview, they all said that TV was an influence, and Larry noted that "You have to be more careful when it's going into people's homes."
Zeppo Marx was stuck with the thankless job of playing the straight man in an act that, at the time, did not have one.
Similarly, Shemp Howard and Joe Besser were stuck with the task of, not only following Curly, but also starring in the series when it was already in a decline. Short subjects (and "B" series features, and serials) were on the way out. Budgets were cut, and a lot of the later films were remakes, built around stock footage.
So my question is what were the circumstances for seeing L&H or 3 Stooges "shorts" back in the 30s?
Clearly folks would go to "the movies" to see a 2-hour Marx Brother or A&C or L&H movie. But what were the circumstances for seeing a 15-minute L&H or 3 Stooges bit? Would it just precede a 2-hour film? Or, would one sit and watch 2 hours of Stooges or L&H?
And I really have to wonder who went to the movies to see 3-Stooges Meet Hercules? Was it a summer release for the drive ins? I would not think it was "made for TV?"
Help???
And I thought Zeppo did a marvelous job doing what he was tasked to do, LOL.
I lived in La Grange, IL about 15 miles southwest of Chicago from 1995 - 2005. One day I was reading an introduction to a book about baseball by Groucho Marx???!!!
Basically he says that he and his bros were working on a farm in La Grange IL during WW 1 during the summer of 1917 and started sneaking off to see the White Sox play baseball.
So I ask the La Grange Historical Society why they don't do a summer "Marx Bros" festival? Easy to see people walking around like the Bros and showing their films at the in-town movie theatre, no? The lady historian looks at me, wrinkles her face a bit, then whispers, "We think they were here because they were evading the draft for WW 1."
"What???" I says with a wrinkled face.
"Yes" she continued in a hushed tone. "Farm workers were exempt from the draft. But if you look at their family history, they only worked on the farm for a brief period during WW 1."
When I was a kid . . . no jokes, the local NBC affiliate used to run comedies from the Thirties and Forties every Sunday at around 8:00 in the morning. I so loved those films that I would willing miss Short Mass and go to the Long Mass at 11:00.
The Catholics among us will understand if I mention that that is the reason I have memories of Latin.
While I enjoyed everything I will admit that Abbott and Costello were my absolute favorite. I think this might also account for my love of the Universal Monsters because one of their first films that I saw was, of course, Abbott and Costello Meet A Brooklyn Gorilla.
It's -18 degrees where I'm at, what else would you expect me to say?
It wasn't something that was always done, but usually a night at the movies might consist of a newsreel, a couple of short films staring the Stooges or several other comedians, a short feature which was generally under forty minutes and a long features that might run for about ninety.
Remember, this was primarily for the major markets that got the films first, secondary markets like the smaller cities might not get everything. Theater chains were often owned by the studios so that could also affect what one area of the country might or might not see.
Now, I am starting to recall those serials kids (just kids?) watched like Flash Gordon? They did come out weekly from what I recall.
So... I am guessing there must have been a general weekly smorgasbord at the local theatre of Flash, Stooges, L&H, and other various 15-minute items and then the kids would see the feature which might be an hour-long western, andy hardy, bowery boys, etc?
I need to ask my folks who were born in the mid 30s. They could tell me, maybe, if someone had a nickel to spare, lol.
-21 F here in Chicago land at 8 AM and a good sold breeze blowing on top of that! Even our head strong Dachshund won't go out, LOL!
Thanks for all the interesting comments everyone :)
Now it's turned bitterly cold here too with snow forecast for this afternoon. Yesterday I was listening to BBC radio's TODAY show and one of the presenters said they'd be interviewing a Chicago meteorologist about the polar vortex over "the African mid-west" - he then quickly corrected himself: "I mean the American mid-west". A polar vortex over Africa would be quite an event !! Anyway, the Chicago meteorologist thought Donald Trump was an idiot for tweeting that the freezing weather proved global warming was a hoax. Apparently warm temperatures above the North Pole is causing the cold spell. Climate change could also shut down the Gulf Stream which keeps our British winters mostly mild (emphasis on mostly because it's not mild today, bbrrrr).
This Thursday morning it was actually -27 F, whereas yesterday a balmy -20.
Climate change: I can now plant my garden on 1 Apr, instead of 15 May, except green beans which are sensitive to cold!
Also, your "africa" remark reminds me that America's bread basket, between Chicago and the Rockies, is actually a very, very arid region which originally only had grass lands (or sod, hence the name "sod buster" for those first farmers IIRC).
I think many of us USA dudes recall driving through states like Nebraska and Kansas and marveling at the lack of trees. Much of the water for this area is getting sucked from underground aquafirs (IIRC) not from rain. So, a little more global warming and the great USA Midwest will likely start looking like the Sahara, LOL. So, your weather man's slip of the tongue...
28 comments:
Mornin' Everybody!
Don't have a topic in mind to throw out---
Just makin' sure everybody's up at this point!
(Assuming most of you in our Chicagoland contingent-- a.k.a. "Ice Station Zebra"-- are likely doing some form of sheltering-in-place today. . . yep?)
HB
As HB doesn't have a topic - what about vintage comedy acts? A new film about Laurel & Hardy has just been released so what are your opinions/memories of this legendary duo or any other vintage comedy act? Are they still funny? Have they dated?
The BBC regularly showed Laurel & Hardy films and I was a big fan (still am) and Harold Lloyd silent shorts seemed to appear on TV quite a lot but I can't recall ever seeing The Marx Brothers, The Three Stooges, Abbot & Costello or Charlie Chaplin so either they weren't broadcast on British TV or I've got a terrible memory. Perhaps other UK readers can shed some light on the matter...
Two facts about Laurel & Hardy:
1) The first official Laurel & Hardy film was called 'The Second Hundred Years' and it was released on October 8th 1927 - just four days before my father was born.
2) In 1975 the song "Trail Of The Lonesome Pine" reached No.2 in the UK singles chart. It wasn't a cover-version but the actual recording from the 1937 film 'Way Out West'. To the kids of 1975 Stan & Ollie's duet would have seemed like a relic from ancient history but it was a mere 38 years old - like a song from 1981 becoming a hit in the current Top 40 (and several songs older than 1981 re-entered the Top 40 at Christmas).
It's zero, going down (and only down), to - 25 F in Chicago. Wind chill??? Who cares, LOL. But I promise all that I WILL go outside in my bathing suit tonight! If you want a photo, let me know! (One of those things you have to say you did!)
Colin - To the best of my ability, we exposed our kids to B&W like Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein (and Dracula and the Werewolf), the Marx Brothers, 3 Stooges, etc.
If a child is not exposed to B&W they seem to have zero tolerance for it as they age, from what we've seen. And I do mean zero.
BUT - we never watched L&H. Just never crossed paths. I think L&H are probably forgotten for the most parts...
I am 57 and I only saw L&H in my childhood at various events hosted by groups like the Knights of Columbus, Boy Scouts, etc. where some guy would show them on 8 mm (?) reel to reel. They were indeed funny, but even in the 1960s L&H and the Keystone Cops in particular seemed "old fashioned" as compared to the others.
For some reason, if I was watching L&H, the Keystone Cops were never far behind, or vice versa, LOL.
Just curious if our friends in the UK have exposure to the Keystone Cops?
Charlie, I'm amazed you had so little exposure to Laurel & Hardy and that you think they are "probably forgotten". Here in the UK the new film "Stan & Ollie" was #1 at the box-office. Probably a lot of the audience grew up watching Laurel & Hardy on TV as I did.
I've never seen a Keystone Cops film but my father remembered them from his childhood and he thought they were hilarious.
SOLID topic-- and one that's dear to my heart-!
As a very young youngster (early elementary years), it was Abbott & Costello who reigned supreme, with the Three Stooges in a strong (but definite) second place. Then everyone else (Laurel & Hardy, Marx Brothers). But this was based almost exclusively on everyone's feature film offerings, 'cause our local TV channels (all UHF) were big on filling air time with old, low-royalty films. I think AFRICA SCREAMS might have been on near-weekly rotation sometimes. . .
L & H's feature films were not their artistic high-light. And the 3 Stooges films were all, of course, later in their career w/ Curly Joe DeRita as the final "third" Stooge, so I never had a sense of what they were like at the height of their fame. It wasn't until I was in high school that we had a hilariously low-budget, wing-and-a-prayer, independent little channel stumble onto our local airwaves that we got a glimpse of the bounty of shorts made by Laurel & Hardy and the Stooges ('cause I suspect that they were public domain by then. . . ). There was the "Curly" I'd heard of,sure--- but who was this "Shemp" guy?? And who in the WORLD was this "Joe Besser"??
There were also a couple of solid and endearing L & H clip-style retrospectives narrated by Fred Allen that provided a wonderful insight into their work and craft and friendship. And all of this cheap, disregarded, half-forgotten material gave me an enormous new regard for The Boys, I have to say.
And it finally occurred to me that I'd been a HUGE fan of theirs for most of my childhood without ever realizing it. Many here will recall that I have an unabashed and loudly-declared love for ol' GILLIGAN'S ISLAND, yep? Welp, there's just no question that the Skipper/Gilligan pairing (and execution) was hugely influenced by/based-on L&H. Not as an imitation or copy, though-- but much more as a loving homage and then extrapolation. Alan Hale Jr is amazingly deft at utilizing some of Babe Hardy's shtick and making it his own (one quick example: The Skipper is the only character that regularly "checks in" with the camera to see if WE can see what an idiot his partner can be. This was a primary go-to for Ollie as well---).
And--- I'll rattle on all day about this if I'm not careful. Okay, enough, enough--- everybody get back to work. . .
HB
Growing up in the '60s in Missouri, it was hard not to be exposed to the slapstick antics of The 3 Stooges, Laurel & Hardy, the Bowery Boys and so many others. I think there were concerns of the 'violence' of the Stooges and of the coarse language - Moe calling the imbeciles, stupid, etc - but I don't think any of our parents thought anything of it. Surprisingly, it wasn't the slapstick that I appreciated, but the clever word play. Very underrated, I think.
For some reason, I wasn't exposed to The Marx Brothers movies til I was in college. Oh, sure, I'd seen Groucho all over TV with You Bet Your Life reruns and appearances on talk shows. But once I'd seen the '20s and '30s classics, I was hooked! I've got lots of books by and about the Marx Bros and will watch their movies often. The puns, sarcasm and clever dialog is so wonderfully done!
I can't wait to see the new L&H movie!
I agree about the Marx Brothers ... classic stuff. I also like Abbott and Costello, but Laurel and Hardy never really grabbed me, and I find the Three Stooges more annoying than funny. I guess I go more for dialogue than physical comedy.
Charlie, it's -25 F here in Saskatchewan right now, so I know exactly what you're talking about!
L&H were at their peak in the 1930s, when they were doing short subjects for Hal Roach's company. Most of the feature length movies that they made in that same period were not bad, but some of them suffered from obvious padding, and would have been better as two-reel shorts.
Their later features at Fox and MGM were blah. And, instead of being dumb in a likable kind of way, they were often portrayed as so stupid that they were more annoying than funny.
Similarly, the Marx Brothers were at their peak in the early 1930s, when they made their first five movies at Paramount. Their later movies at MGM and UA suffered from intrusive musical numbers and romantic subplots that interrupted the comedy. (Although Groucho always said that the first two MGM films, A Night at the Opera and A Day at the Races, were "the best two pictures we ever made.")
Abbott & Costello were sometimes mildly amusing, but I would rate them at least a notch below Laurel and Hardy.
I loved the Three Stooges. When I was a little kid, I would see their feature films (like The Outlaws Is Coming and Have Rocket-Will Travel), and I would read the Gold Key comics, all with Curly Joe. And I would see their old 1930s shorts, with Curly (Howard) on early Saturday morning TV. At the time, I didn't realize (maybe I was just a dumb kid) that "Curly" and "Curly Joe" were two different guys. Then I got confused when they started showing the ones with Shemp and Joe Besser. Years later, I read Leonard Maltin's book Movie Comedy Teams, and got it all sorted out. And, now, Shemp is my favorite "third Stooge."
BTW, Shemp and Joe Besser were both in Africa Screams.
Excellent conversation all. Thinking back about these type of acts I enjoyed everything from Harold Lloyd to Charlie Chaplin. A lot of fun.
CH 47 don’t end up frozen to the sidewalk! Cheers!
It is fair to say that, in the USA due to local broadcasting prerogative, Charlie in Chicago likely saw something different than HB in Michigan or Disney in Missouri in the 60s and 70s.
I think if our then-local Chicago stations (notably WGN) showed more L&H I would have been a bigger L&H fan. But none did.
WGN showed the Marx Brothers all week, once a year. So... I liked Marx Brothers. WGN also showed a ton of the Bowery Boys and Micky Rooney and Judy Garland's "Andy Hardy" movies and whatever old, funny B&W was available I suppose. WFLD a local station had non-stop Stooges. Both stations showed the odd A&C movie.
BUT there simply was no L&H I recall (Doug? Marti? Any thoughts on that, LOL?)
HB - your comparison of L&H to G's Island left me dumfounded! Wow was that spot on!
B.t.w my parents had to ban 3 Stooges in our house when they caught me taking the saw to my younger brother's head, LOL. (I was like 6 and he was 4.) They lightened up and then caught him taking a hammer to my head. That was that!
CH 47 I vaguely remember watching Laurel & Hardy with my Dad. I have a sense we did watch them regularly because I really recall that he liked them. And I know I’ve seen them moving the piano in “The Music Box”. Thinking back I am guessing it was on PBS Channel 11. It’s the only place I can imagine they showed L&H shorts.
Excellent conversation, gang! Let me echo Charlie in praise for your L/H -Gilligan comparison, HB. Inspired!
I knew Laurel and Hardy mostly because of my parents, who would occasionally watch them on tv, and would reminisce at some length about enjoying them in their youths. I liked their short features, but was definitely more interested in the 3 Stooges. In central Indiana, on Saturday mornings, there was a local kid's show host by the alliterative name of Harlowe Hickenlooper. He showed Stooges films each week, and I loved 'em. That love only grew in later years. I never fail to remind my youngest son that when he was born, my wife and I had the Stooges playing on tv in her room. While she delivered! Ok, it was mostly my choice, she was otherwise preoccupied. Anyway, I tell my son that the Stooges surely had some unorthodox influence upon his development...
College introduced me to the Marx Brothers and Charlie Chaplin. I took a film class as an elective, and was so inspired that a couple friends and I started a weekly film festival at our art school. One film we featured was Chaplin's "Gold Rush". Ohhh, good times...
Marti - I am simply perplexed... I have to imagine L&H were on the tube but I have zero recollection when. WGN was pretty repetitive with their programming so one would think I'd recall seeing it.
But as I sit here today, I only recall seeing the 8 mm tapes at kids events and it always seemed like L&H were paired with the Keystone Cops which I think were actually silent films? And KC were always running "fast motion." I am guessing they were originally recorded at perhaps 14 frames per second or something before Hollywood standardized at 24 and thus were always running fast? That's just conjecture as I am not expert in those things, lol.
Maybe Doug can shed some light on this L&H mystery since he grew up around here?
Or, perhaps HB? He was on the other side of Lake Michigan but I seem to recall him saying he would pick up WGN from Chicago?
Oh, currently here along the ol' Ohio River it's a balmy 25 degrees F; but the mercury is falling fast tonight. Forecasts predict about 5 degrees by morning, not including substantial wind chill. Charlie, Doug, Marti, and all you Northerners have my sympathy...
Oh yeah, CH47, there's no doubt that all of our little local stations varied wildly, region to region, in what they tossed out there for there "cheap" slots.
For me, as you might've guessed, L&H stand head and shoulders above everyone else discussed here. I definitely grew into them. Abbott&Costello probably fell the farthest, although I can still enjoy them. They were brilliant, but they never found a way to grow artistically-- and relied HEAVILY on slightly-altered variations of their best shtick. Their radio program (which was quite popular) rather emphasizes that weakness, I think. And-- while Bud was a fantastic Straight-Man-- it did trap their act into the same patterns over & over & over.
The 3 Stooges were just so flippin' violent (when I finally did start seeing the shorts) that it soured me on them as an adult. Too much, too mean, too self-indulgent. HOWEVER-- they were also capable of much more. . .and those late feature films remain my favorites of their catalog. 3 STOOGES MEET HERCULES is a flippin' hoot, IMO, and is more chase-scenes and situations than pokes in the eye.
And the Marx Bros are almost their own genre, really. The amount of careless, raw talent in three of those brothers is impossible to overstate, y'know? (And almost diametrically opposed to the black-hole of non-talent from poor ol' Gummo & Zeppo. . . yikes!!). Didn't really come to them until adulthood, as my wife was a big fan.
HB (out!)
IIUC, silent films were recorded at something like 14 frames per second, and later, the industry standardized at 24, so old 1920s movies can look jerky when they are played on modern equipment, unless adjustments are made.
The 3 Stooges definitely toned down the violence in their later films. In an interview, they all said that TV was an influence, and Larry noted that "You have to be more careful when it's going into people's homes."
Zeppo Marx was stuck with the thankless job of playing the straight man in an act that, at the time, did not have one.
Similarly, Shemp Howard and Joe Besser were stuck with the task of, not only following Curly, but also starring in the series when it was already in a decline. Short subjects (and "B" series features, and serials) were on the way out. Budgets were cut, and a lot of the later films were remakes, built around stock footage.
So my question is what were the circumstances for seeing L&H or 3 Stooges "shorts" back in the 30s?
Clearly folks would go to "the movies" to see a 2-hour Marx Brother or A&C or L&H movie. But what were the circumstances for seeing a 15-minute L&H or 3 Stooges bit? Would it just precede a 2-hour film? Or, would one sit and watch 2 hours of Stooges or L&H?
And I really have to wonder who went to the movies to see 3-Stooges Meet Hercules? Was it a summer release for the drive ins? I would not think it was "made for TV?"
Help???
And I thought Zeppo did a marvelous job doing what he was tasked to do, LOL.
Regarding Marx Bros.
I lived in La Grange, IL about 15 miles southwest of Chicago from 1995 - 2005. One day I was reading an introduction to a book about baseball by Groucho Marx???!!!
Basically he says that he and his bros were working on a farm in La Grange IL during WW 1 during the summer of 1917 and started sneaking off to see the White Sox play baseball.
So I ask the La Grange Historical Society why they don't do a summer "Marx Bros" festival? Easy to see people walking around like the Bros and showing their films at the in-town movie theatre, no? The lady historian looks at me, wrinkles her face a bit, then whispers, "We think they were here because they were evading the draft for WW 1."
"What???" I says with a wrinkled face.
"Yes" she continued in a hushed tone. "Farm workers were exempt from the draft. But if you look at their family history, they only worked on the farm for a brief period during WW 1."
"OK," I says.... "Mums the word!"
Charlie- great story. Trying to imagine Groucho detasseling corn. During WW1. Sounds like the plot to one of their films...
Hiya,
When I was a kid . . . no jokes, the local NBC affiliate used to run comedies from the Thirties and Forties every Sunday at around 8:00 in the morning. I so loved those films that I would willing miss Short Mass and go to the Long Mass at 11:00.
The Catholics among us will understand if I mention that that is the reason I have memories of Latin.
While I enjoyed everything I will admit that Abbott and Costello were my absolute favorite. I think this might also account for my love of the Universal Monsters because one of their first films that I saw was, of course, Abbott and Costello Meet A Brooklyn Gorilla.
It's -18 degrees where I'm at, what else would you expect me to say?
Stay Warm.
pfgavigan
Hiya,
Hey Charlie Horse,
It wasn't something that was always done, but usually a night at the movies might consist of a newsreel, a couple of short films staring the Stooges or several other comedians, a short feature which was generally under forty minutes and a long features that might run for about ninety.
Remember, this was primarily for the major markets that got the films first, secondary markets like the smaller cities might not get everything. Theater chains were often owned by the studios so that could also affect what one area of the country might or might not see.
seeya
pfgavigan
Hi Ya Gang!
Now, I am starting to recall those serials kids (just kids?) watched like Flash Gordon? They did come out weekly from what I recall.
So... I am guessing there must have been a general weekly smorgasbord at the local theatre of Flash, Stooges, L&H, and other various 15-minute items and then the kids would see the feature which might be an hour-long western, andy hardy, bowery boys, etc?
I need to ask my folks who were born in the mid 30s. They could tell me, maybe, if someone had a nickel to spare, lol.
-21 F here in Chicago land at 8 AM and a good sold breeze blowing on top of that! Even our head strong Dachshund won't go out, LOL!
Thanks for all the interesting comments everyone :)
Now it's turned bitterly cold here too with snow forecast for this afternoon. Yesterday I was listening to BBC radio's TODAY show and one of the presenters said they'd be interviewing a Chicago meteorologist about the polar vortex over "the African mid-west" - he then quickly corrected himself: "I mean the American mid-west". A polar vortex over Africa would be quite an event !!
Anyway, the Chicago meteorologist thought Donald Trump was an idiot for tweeting that the freezing weather proved global warming was a hoax. Apparently warm temperatures above the North Pole is causing the cold spell. Climate change could also shut down the Gulf Stream which keeps our British winters mostly mild (emphasis on mostly because it's not mild today, bbrrrr).
Hi Colin,
This Thursday morning it was actually -27 F, whereas yesterday a balmy -20.
Climate change: I can now plant my garden on 1 Apr, instead of 15 May, except green beans which are sensitive to cold!
Also, your "africa" remark reminds me that America's bread basket, between Chicago and the Rockies, is actually a very, very arid region which originally only had grass lands (or sod, hence the name "sod buster" for those first farmers IIRC).
I think many of us USA dudes recall driving through states like Nebraska and Kansas and marveling at the lack of trees. Much of the water for this area is getting sucked from underground aquafirs (IIRC) not from rain. So, a little more global warming and the great USA Midwest will likely start looking like the Sahara, LOL. So, your weather man's slip of the tongue...
CHeers ALL!
Thanks for that information about the Midwest, Charlie. Very informative.
Post a Comment