Two Questions: Ampersand Cops and Character Choice Flops!

Martinex1: Hope you all are having a great week! Today let's dive into two series of questions that have been floating around in my head - one focused on comics and the other on television!  I am curious to hear what you have to say.  Cheers!


Martinex1: (Editor's Note):  This week, for the first time in 63 attempts we had a suggestion for our Tuesday Follow the Leader discussion that conflicted with a column we had planned.  Our friend and frequent commentator Colin Jones said, "Who were the most annoying Bronze Age characters that should have been killed off (permanently)? I'm mainly thinking of comics but you can also include TV shows, Cartoons, film, etc."    He then went on to mention some of his least favorites... "Aunt May, Odin, The original X-Men, Magneto, Red Skull (etc)..."


While today's column does not go so far as to want characters to die, we are asking a question (#1 below) that  discusses characters we don't like and the impact of not liking that character.   Although, not exactly the same query, I thought it was close enough in spirit that we might share our general dislike about certain characters in one column rather than two so we don't repeat and offend all of the BitBA fans.  Our posts are usually planned well in advance (well at least an hour or in this case about a week).  We appreciate Colin offering up a different topic on Tuesday. 


So in the spirit of Colin's original comment if you would like to discuss actually killing off annoying characters, please do so.  Here in it's entirety... are the questions for today's post as we originally intended.



Question #1:  We have discussed before how a change in a creative team has prevented us from buying a comic book (or after a small sampling we changed our purchasing decision). But what about a character change?   Has a change in roster on a team or the inclusion of a certain character (or dismissal of another) caused you to remove the comic book from your "buy" list?  And vice versa has a certain character being included caused you to try a title you had not before?

For me, there were a few characters that just rubbed me the wrong way.  I did not jump ship when Angel replaced Cyclops in the X-Men (probably because Byrne and Claremont were still involved) but I did not like that development.  I understood Cyclops leaving after the Dark Phoenix events, but it really felt like they had to shoehorn in an "original" member and the Beast was taken.  Angel never did anything in that run and eventually disappeared.

The New Defenders did not seem like the classic Defenders I knew, so I did not pursue any of the issues with the Beast, Angel, and Moondragon.  But even before that revamp, I skipped every issue that included Daimon Hellstrom.  I just do not like the character and seeing him in the corner box just made me spend my money elsewhere. That combined with Nighthawk not being shown assured my disdain.  Nighthawk was the opposite for me; generally if he showed up I was interested.

Revamping Alpha Flight seemed like a huge misstep.  I never picked up any of their Volume 2, but even prior to that when the team included Box and Talisman, I started to drift away because they did not interest me.

And though an Avengers fan, that roster change in issue #211 really ended my interest for a long while.  And even when I perused future issues, Starfox was somebody that added to my dislike.  The roster below would have been cool but the lothario from Titan irritated me.

Books like Marvel Team-Up and Marvel Two-In-One could be hit or miss; again certain characters in the corner box assured my buying or refusal to buy.  My quarters were too hard earned then and I had to be selective. Here are some I skipped even though the issues themselves may have been spectacular (and in the case of Red Sonja - a classic).

So who don't you  like as a character?  Who drives you away from  a purchase?  Is it a headliner or even a supporting cast member that makes you gag?  Who makes you choose Richie Rich rather than a super-hero mag?



Question #2: Bronze Age television seemed to be rife with police procedurals and detective dramas; we have opined in the past about some of the greats like Columbo and The Rockford Files. But there seemed to be a subset of these shows that starred a seemingly mismatched set of partners.  Of the "partner investigator" shows, which were your favorites and why?  Who got the chemistry just right?

dis

Follow the Leader: Episode 63: Best and Worst What-If Stories!

Martinex1: Here we go... give us a topic and we will all jump in with comments!  Keep our streak rolling with distinctive dialogue, opposing opinions, and random recollections! Let's Follow the Leader!

Today: Best and Worst What If Stories!  (Not characters we cannot stand -save that for Thursday)!

Short Cuts: "I Love to Ride My Bicycle..."

Redartz:  One thing we all had in common, back in the Bronze Age, was our form of transportation. As kids, and frequently as college students, a bicycle was the cheapest, easiest, and (in my opinion) the most fun means to get from place to place. These two-wheeled wonders were, and are, great exercise and good for the environment. No fuel required, except some generous leg power. And for some of us, that bike in the garage became a close friend (think of Ben Hanscomb's bike "Silver" in the Steven King book "It"). In my case, the bike was almost an extension of my body, especially during the summer months. 

In my pre-teen years, this cherry-red beauty was my steed. Very much like a Schwinn Stingray, but not a Shwinn ( I think it was a Huffy).Only one speed, but a hand brake, banana seat and slick rear tire. I loved that bike (and boy, could it pop a wheelie!).









 

A few years later, in high school and college, a Schwinn 10-speed Continental much like this one was my ride. It got me back and forth across town, to school and back, to driver's education class, down many country roads, and of course to the comic shop. Unfortunately it was stolen, a fate that befell more than one bike in my former possession (still hard to figure how they cut the heavy chain lock when I had parked it in the bike rack outside the local library). For many years after, it was a car or walking. But after parenthood hit, the call of the two-wheeler summoned me once again. I still ride, although not nearly enough...



What got you around town? Do you still ride? Ever ride in a bike-a-thon or race? Were you unfortunate enough to have suffered a crack-up or two (I did, but only needed stitches once)? Share your cycling stories today!

Off the Bookshelf: Considering "Graphic Novels"

Redartz:  Hello again, folks! Like you, I've spent many years reading innumerable books, magazines, and comic books. In the case of comics, my younger years were spent with newsprint adventures of Spider-Man,  Batman, Archie, and many others. But during those years, I never really thought of comics as more than (very enjoyable, and at times very literate) entertainment. In 1978, however, something quite new got my attention: that something was a 'graphic novel'.   Not a collection of comic books or strips, but a single ,self-contained 'novel' of comic art and story.  Comics icon Will Eisner, in that year, released a book called "A Contract With God"; representing a fundamental shift in the way comics art could be viewed.

A brief digression: what I'm referring to today are graphic novels created initially in that specific format, as opposed to those comprised of the collected contents of previously-published material. No disrespect to those, of course. Among them are some of the greatest comic novels ever published: Maus, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Bone, and so on...

So having read, and loved, Eisner's "Spirit" stories, I decided to give this new storytelling venture of his a look. It turned out to be a good decision; the book was phenomenal. A powerful, at times painful, at times hilarious, set of tales; blending Eisner's masterful storytelling with his ground-breaking artwork. As a reader, I was gobsmacked: here were all the familiar elements of comic books, put to a serious, adult format. Eisner had long discussed the concept of comics as art, and here was that concept in concrete form (indeed, Eisner preferred the term "sequential art" to "comics"). 







 



In subsequent years, I grabbed up many other 'graphic novels', including Marvel's first entry into the field: Jim Starlin's "Death of Captain Marvel". And though the subject matter was superheroic, the
 story itself was much deeper. Again, the 'graphic novel' format allowed for an expansion of theme, and the opportunity for creators such as Starlin to explore some meatier fare than standard four color comics generally allowed. Not tied into the continuity of monthly comics, a graphic novel could present powerful stand-alone stories with familiar characters (X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills) or material from totally divergent genre (say, DC's Science Fiction Graphic Novels). The graphic novel format has , over the last three decades, expanded the potential audience for comics art and has included biographies, humor stories, horror, history, and any genre you could name. Looking over my bookshelf, I am certain that Eisner was right; comics can be as potent, and effective, as any other medium for artistic and social expression.


Which brings us to the discussion for today: when did you discover the Graphic Novel? What was your first; your favorite? Do you agree with Eisner regarding the creative potential of the medium? If not, what is your assessment of comics as graphic novels? Pull your best ones 'off the bookshelf' and tell us about them...

Panel Discussion: Celebrity Influence on our Favorite Comic Characters!

Martinex1: Did you ever wonder how comic book artists are inspired to invent such lasting characters and situations?  Sometimes the inspiration for character design comes from real life.  Sometimes the "models" are famous Hollyood actors and actresses.  Today, let's look at a few such cases in which movie celebrities may or may not have become comic book stars.

It has been said that John Romita saw Ann-Margaret in the 1963 film Bye Bye Birdie, and Mary Jane evolved from the image of the carefree fun-loving dancing red head. What do you think?  Do you see the resemblance?  And if you've seen Ann-Margaret movies do you see aspects of the party girl Mary Jane was initially portrayed as?

For maybe a resemblance a little less subtle, take a look at silent film star Conrad Veidt.  He was a German actor in the early days of cinema and starred in classics like The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.  The photos below come from his appearance in the 1928 romantic melodrama The Man Who Laughs.  Supposedly Bob Kane and Bill Finger drew their inspiration from Veidt's appearance and performance. That seems pretty clear.

Reportedly when Stan Lee created Tony Stark the industrialist and tycoon, he had a very famous movie mogul, aviator, and billionaire in mind - the legendary and eccentric Howard Hughes.  Silver Age depictions of the heroic inventor definitely resembled Hughes in his younger days.

Tony Stark seemed to de-age in the seventies and take on a much different look, but it is easy to see the Hughes influence in the Tales of Suspense Iron Man stories with Don Heck handling the artistic steps.

John Byrne may be most recognized for using film and television stars to influence comic characters with his iconic take on the Hellfire Club.  The entire concept was a blunt homage to an episode of the British television serial The Avengers.  One episode had John Steed and Emma Peel investigating and infiltrating the famed Hellfire Club.  Diana Rigg as Peel donned a sultry outfit much like the one worn by Jean Grey; in fact she was identified as the Queen of Sin in the show.  The episode is titled "A Touch of Brimstone" and guest stars actor Peter Wyngarde as the charming leader of the group (keep that in mind).

This was an extremely popular episode of the series and must have left quite an impression on the X-Men handlers.  Take a look.

Byrne went even further (and along with Chris Claremont as writer) designed the look and named each of the evil team's  comic characters after Hollywood elite.  Sebastian Shaw had a close resemblance to Robert Shaw.

Harry Leland had a definite Orson Welles vibe. Also note that two well known characters in Welles' films were Harry Lime (The Third Man) and Jed Leland (Citizen Kane).  A coincidence - I think not.

Remember Peter Wyngarde from the above mentioned television show, well here is Peter Wyngarde the actor next to Jason Wyngarde the mutant villain.  Note also that one of Peter Wyngarde's most famous roles was as Jason King in a couple of British programs from the early 1970s. Peter Wyngarde just passed away about a month ago at the age of 90.

And last but not least, cyborg Donald Pierce was based on Donald Sutherland, who portrayed Hawkeye Pierce in the movie version of M*A*S*H.

It is definitely fun to see how the artists draw from the culture around them to create the lasting images we so fondly remember.  Do you know of any other significant character inspirations?  Let's discuss them all today at BitBA.  Cheers!