Martinex1: I am going to be rather brief today, as Redartz, Doug from the ol' BAB, frequent commenter Charlie Horse 47 and I are headed into Chicago to the C2E2 convention. It was an astounding week and one of our most visited periods for BitBA thus far. Thank you for visiting the site and partaking in the conversation topics this week. From Byrne and Perez to misunderstood lyrics to bands jumping the shark to road trips and parental guidance, we enjoyed the comments and discussion. Take a look back if you missed anything; it was pretty lively this week.
In the coming days we of course have more Bronze Age fun on the way. The agenda includes but is not limited to friendly aliens, the art of Ed Hannigan, and Follow the Leader.
If you have any topic suggestions for us, reach out to backinthebronzeage@gmail.com We will put the idea in the queue; a hundred heads is better than two.
Enjoy the day and if you have any recommendations for your fellow visitors, share your thoughts in the comment section. We will be back tomorrow in full form. In the meantime, enjoy some Sunday strips from Dean Young, Mort Walker, Ernie Bushmiller and more. Who is your favorite classic cartoonist? Cheers!
Redartz: Greetings, everyone! Here at BitBA, we are preparing for an upcoming road trip to C2E2. Of course, the trip is a bit longer for some of us than for others. But that's ok, this Bronze ager loves a road trip. And who doesn't? Hitting the highway, roll down the windows, grab a cool drink and bag of snacks. Turn up the radio/cd/satellite radio and you're off! It is often said that, when traveling, the journey is as important as the destination. That may or may not be true, but the trip is certainly a chance to let your hair down and cruise...
So today, tell us about your favorite road trip stories. I'll take the wheel, you handle the entertainment!
Redartz: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another episode of "Adventures in Comics". Many of the subjects we discuss here at BitBA involve looking back to our collective youth. Today, though, we will work from the vantage point of 'adulthood' (yes, my level of adulthood is certainly open to debate). Many of us are parents, or have nieces or nephews. Some of us are actually grandparents. As parents, or aunts/uncles or grandparents, part of our role is the passing on of knowledge and experience. As Bronze Agers, our love of comics has been an important part of our lives, and as such, is fair game to pass along to the next generation. Therefore, today, let's talk about the ways in which comics have been a part of our parental role.
As a young parent, only a couple years out of college, I still had a modest comic collection. Our two sons knew of my hobby (and knew which books were 'off limits'). In my youth, reading comics helped nurture my general love for reading. I was determined to inspire reading in our sons as well. And among the books I read to them were several featuring comic characters. These weren't comics per se, but children's storybooks featuring the likes of Batman, Spider-Man, Captain America and the Hulk. Our youngest, in particular, really picked up on the characters early on. He became nuts about Batman, carrying his figures around all over the house. He still collects figures, but now they are somewhat larger. Our oldest, meanwhile, developed an interest in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
The fascination both boys had for comic characters was reflected in many ways: the decorations in their rooms, their toys, and their birthday cakes. My wife would bake incredible cakes, and rely on me to render Batman, Spider-Man, the Turtles, and many others in colored frosting. Drawing Spidey's webbing is challenging anytime, let alone using a frosting bag and tips.
It wasn't long before financial difficulties necessitated the disposal of practically all of my remaining comics. Ironically, while I was parting with most of mine, our oldest started getting interested in comics. Indeed, I took him to his first comic shop about 1990, and he got hooked on Todd McFarlane's work on Spider-Man. I passed several books on to him at the time to help him get started. Here is one of his earliest acquisitions, on one of those LCS trips:
During that decade, both boys got further interested in comics due to the popular Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men animated tv series. By the late 90's, their enthusiasm had spread back to me and I started picking up some comics again. Of course, now I had some company. At my workplace, our youngest would join me when he didn't have school, and at lunch we would go to a local card/comic shop and pick out a few goodies (they made effective rewards for good grades). And each Christmas, I'd sneak a few back issues into each boy's gifts (usually stuck inside a sweater or shirt). Both of our sons developed sufficient interest in comics that the day finally came when all three of us attended a con: Wizard World Chicago. Their first reactions upon entering the show were priceless. A huge venue, literally filled with comics, creators, fans, and much more. They looked like Dorothy stepping out into Oz for the first time! Watching them rifle through boxes and boxes of books, meeting artists, and watching the cosplayers: it made for a great day. And even the drive up to the show was such a treat: all of us excitedly discussing the comics we loved and would be seeking out. That day, sent with the two of them, will always be one of the biggest highlights in my career as a dad.
A few years later, our oldest made us grandparents. And like his 'old man', our son started introducing his boys to comics. And it connected with them as well. Starting out, they enjoyed books such as the one shown on the left. Our first grandson comes to visit us from time to time, and he loves to read my comics and graphic novels. He also has been the recipient of some four color fun from my collection. And the next grandson: well, last time I saw him he was beaming as he showed me the stack of comics he picked up at a thrift store (chip off the old block). He scored a nice little pile of Bronze age books, among them several issues of Marvel Two-in-One. Both grandsons are readers, incidentally, and are doing great in school. I'm not saying that comics are the cause, but hey, they didn't hurt...
To sum it all up: comics have certainly been a part of my life, and it's only natural they would be a part of parenthood as well. I do think they helped our sons, I know they helped me growing up. And comics definitely provided some very fond memories of some wonderfully shared experiences. That's no small thing. Okay, friends- what do you think? Has your comics fandom been reflected in your parental life? Please share your stories; I can't wait to hear them!
Martinex1: Our friend Doug shared some thoughts recently about bands and musicians that outlived their welcome and perhaps jumped the shark. "Jumping the shark" of course refers to the point at which a concept was stretched to its limit, used some type of gimmick or changed tack to generate interest, and headed from that point in a negative trajectory. The origin of the term refers to the episode in the fifth season of Happy Daysin which Fonzie (Henry Winkler) clad in a leather jacket and on water skis actually jumped a shark. That show steadily went down hill after that ludicrous episode culminating with cast changes and horrible spinoffs. It took seven more seasons for Happy Daysto go off the air, but for many the show ended with that jump. For your enjoyment take a look at the seminal moment from September 20, 1977.
Wow! Here at BitBA, on occasion we will explore our favorite cultural phenomena and when they "jumped the shark." Thanks to Doug's insightful suggestion, lets start with bands!
Here are some edited excerpts from Doug's comments from his email that explain his particular feelings regarding Starship and some of their songs from the 80s:
Doug: While fixing dinner this evening my wife and I were listening to a local radio station that plays 50s to 80s tunes. "Sara" by Starship came on and my ears began to bleed. (Regarding the singer Marty Thomas) - about the time he arrived is when that group jumped the shark. I can take "Jane" because it is a rocker. But when "We Built This City" comes along I want to puke. But the Jefferson Airplane and Jefferson Starship had a lot of really good music. So when did a given band suddenly begin to fail with you? And was it due to a personnel change or simply the passage of time or changing of the market?
Martinex1: Hilarious. I have the same reaction to the kind of overblown excessive manufactured enthusiasm of "We Built This City." Just so we can all enjoy the same ear-bleeding, vomit inducing track that actually reached #1 on the U.S. charts in November of 1985, here is the video promoting the song and album Knee Deep in the Hoopla.
Martinex1: I just have to say that if he really meant that "Marconi played the mamba..,"(a mamba is a large fast-moving venomous snake), I have a much greater appreciation for the song. Or are we mis-hearing that?
For my "shark jump," I am going to head down a slightly different path. I was a big fan of The Who during my high school years. But when the album It's Hardarrived in 1982, it was obvious something had drastically changed - and not for the better. When did they jump the shark? I am not particularly sure exactly but it definitely happened. Keith Moon died shortly after the release of Who Are Youso that had a definite impact on the band. I liked the following album Face Dances with Kenney Jones on drums, and with songs like "Another Tricky Day," "You Better, You Bet" and "Don't Let Go the Coat." it had not gone totally downhill - or had it?
Somewhere during that timeframe from 1978 with Who Are You until 1982's It's Hard, the band changed drastically. To exemplify that, take a look at videos from the two albums a mere four years apart.
Of course, Moon's attitude and energy helped the band, but beyond that it is obvious the participation went from a sense of enjoyment to the slog of a job. The second video even seems to highlight the business and behind the scenes "work." So they jumped the shark in the early 80s. The Who continued for decades without many new releases, but were never even a shadow of what they had been. The song "Eminence Front" even seems to indicate that its all for show now, and that may be the best song on the album. They seem tired and aged, and yet believe it or not the members were only about 38 years old around the time of that release (they suddenly seemed ancient to teenage me).
I also want to point out that the band members' solo albums were mostly in decline around the same time. Pete Townshend had a couple of average releases, but John Entwistle's Too Late the Hero from 1981 was a shocking misfire. The title song was a far cry musically from "Boris the Spider;" it was bland and lackluster. And the song "Talk Dirty" could have easily fit into Spinal Tap's lyrical repertoire.
I think there were a combination of catalysts to their slow demise, but when you see a band become more "corporate" it is a bad sign.
So those are some starting thoughts for our discussion today. I am sure you all have many examples to share of bands you love and bands you despise. When did U2 stop being rebellious rockers and become stadium showmen; did they jump the shark? When did Billy Joel stop being a piano man, or did he? When did the Stones lose their edge? Who retained their untouchable iconic status? Who quit before they jumped the shark? Who played until nobody listened and when did they jump the shark? Does fashion and style have anything to do with the perception? Were the 80s just bad? Did all the great 60s acts jump the shark in those days trying to convert to a new style?
Share your thoughts; we are curious what you have to say and what examples you will choose. Here is to hoping that BitBA hasn't jumped the shark yet! Cheers!
Redartz: Hello again everyone! Once again, we present a couple of questions for your consideration. Nothing too weighty today, we'll keep it easy. Question 1. Many characters in comics, over the years, have been featured in more than one title at a time. Supeman appears in Action Comics, and his own named title (and of course there was DC Comics Presents, and World's Finest, but we're dealing with non-'team up' books). Batman has Batman (obviously), and Detective. Spider-man had Amazing, Spectacular, Web of, Friendly Neighborhood, and several others (Marvel kind of mined the web-slinger heavily, eh?). Flash and Wonder Woman also appeared in Adventure while headlining their own titles. The X-Men had several, filling the shelves in the 90's. You may have more examples. Anyway, the question: which secondary title (that is, not named specifically for the starring character) had the best run?
2.
2. Less explanation needed for this one: what is your favorite card game?
To get it rolling, here's my answers: 1. Detective Comics. A tough call, as Spectacular Spider-man has a lot going for it too. Yet the great range of art and story in Detective nails it for me. The Adams issues, Jim Aparo, the Englehart/Rogers run. Some nice early 00's stories by Paul Dini. Just off the top of my mind... 2. Euchre. I think it may be the official card game in the state of Indiana. It is simple to learn, quick to play, and best of all: it doesn't require huge amounts of concentration, so you can actually carry on some conversation while playing. The biggest challenge for me is remembering which suit is trump. My wife will give me 'that look' if I trump her ace... Ok, group. Your turn; pick a title and then deal yourselves in!
Martinex1: It is that time of week again - Tuesday means Follow the Leader on BitBA. So wake up early (or if you are overseas break from lunch) and start a topic rolling. We've covered Hammer Films, classical music, favorite comic arcs, and our first comic acquisitions lately. Pick something new and let's get the conversation started!
Martinex1: We have another double-header for you today with a topic that straddles both Panel Discussion and The Brave or the Bold. Our headliners today are John Byrne and George Perez, obviously two of the most prolific and outstanding artists of our favored era. A couple of weeks ago in a comment section I asked a question regarding the work of these artists on a particular image from Avengers #181, and it sparked an idea. Let's compare and contrast these greats. Who was the better cover artist, group artist, and all-around story teller?
I assume it will be difficult to decide so I've supplied a number of pieces below with George Perez' work on the left and John Byrne's art on the right. Their careers followed similar patterns and they often worked on the same books. Sometimes they traded off penciling covers from issue to issue as in Avengers, Marvel Two-In-One, and even the Uncanny X-Men. Terry Austin, a great artist in his own right, inked both on occasion. They worked with many other famous inkers as well like Sinnott, Giacoia, and Thangal. Both artists evolved over time. It should be fun today contrasting the work and we will enjoy hearing your comments as we discuss the men, the art, and the ties to the Bronze Age! Cheers!
George Perez
John Byrne
Perez (cover) - The table scene in Avengers #181 - Byrne (interior)
George Perez - The Avengers and the Titans (Whoa!)
John Byrne - The X-Men and the Titans (Holy Moly!)
Perez - Fantastic Four - Byrne
Perez - Team Work - Byrne
Perez - All Out Action - Byrne
Perez - And More Avengers - Byrne
George Perez - Two Page Spread
John Byrne - Spreading it out with the X-Men
Perez - And let's not forget the DC stars like Superman - Byrne
Perez - and Wonder Woman - Byrne
There is so much to consider in the art and output (that has lasted for decades) that each of these gentlemen could get a dedicated week on BitBA. I suspect that this may just be Part 1 of the Perez / Byrne comparison; I will come back to this in future months and explore so much more - but let's hear your comments on the talented duo and their Bronze Age influence.
