Thursday, May 24, 2018

Super Blog Team-Up: Obscure Replacements, Substitutes and Resurrections in the Marvel Universe!

Martinex1: Good day and welcome all to the Back in the Bronze Age blog site.   Today we have a special feature in coordination with the great Super Blog Team-Up.   For those of you that are new to our site, my buddy Redartz and I feature regular columns on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday celebrating great memories from the Bronze Age of our youth.   Movies, television, society, and of course comic books are fair game for BitBA.  Take a look at the sidebar for a variety of topics we have covered in our more than 400 posts.  We hope you enjoy our past selections as well as encourage you to visit the other bloggers in this momentous team-up.  At your convenience hop on over to Bronze Age Babies, I'm the Gun, and Chasing Amazing for like minded goodness and a collaborative topic.

Redartz:  May I also extend a warm welcome to both our regulars today, and a special "hello" to anyone visiting us for the first time under the auspices of the illustrious Super Blog Team-Up. As my esteemed partner Marti noted, we cover a lot of ground here, but generally tread lovingly upon the fruitful footpaths of the Bronze Age. Please feel free to scan over some of our 'back issue' posts, and by all means check out the other Super Bloggers today!

Martinex1:  Now that we have gotten past the formalities for the great blog crossover, let's dive right into what we hope will be a spectacularly fun conversation.   When challenged by the topic of replacement characters, Red and I wanted to focus on the less recognized yet often intriguing substitute protagonists and antagonists that were scattered throughout Marvel's history and catalog.  Hopefully you will find these tidbits of super-heroic craziness entertaining as well
Redartz:  Marti and I will banter back and forth a bit here, but I'm bowing to his expertise on some of these references! I'll be a bit more vociferous regarding a few characters from the purview of the ever-Amazing Spider-Man (anyone familiar with us here knows I'm a bit of a Spidey nut). And with no further ado, take it away Martinex1!

Eddie March: Iron Man

Martinex1: First up, let's jump back in time to October of 1969 when Iron Man Vol. 1 #21 was on the stands.  The George Tuska cover leapt off the spinner rack with Tony Stark exclaiming emphatically, "I QUIT!" while slamming his helmet to the ground.  I received this comic as a gift from an older cousin, and even though I knew little at the time about the golden Avenger I was intrigued.  It was the first solo Iron Man comic that I ever read. 

Martinex1: However once I opened the book at the ripe age of six I was thoroughly confused.   Iron Man was in a boxing ring getting thoroughly pounded by a boxing behemoth.   What was going on? Writer Archie Goodwin quickly explained that the heavyweight star Eddie March imagined himself to be Iron Man when in the ring.  It gave him the courage, endurance, and moxie to stand up the difficult competitors.  He drew on his imagination of his idol and hero to rack up win after win.

Martinex1: Tony Stark, on the other hand, was living through a bit of a crisis and trying to come to terms with his ailing heart and diminishing interest in being Iron Man.  He and Happy Hogan (who knew Iron Man's true identity from pretty early in his career) brainstormed about who could take on the gauntlet and replace Iron Man.  Strangely they did not pick Happy himself, but simultaneously concluded that the champion boxer Eddie "Iron Man" March should be the second Iron Man.  Little did they know though that Eddie had been diagnosed with a potential blood clot in the brain and was on the verge of being forced out of his boxing career because of doctor's orders.   The pugilist was honored with Tony's request and quickly took on the opportunity to don the armor instead.  It is fascinating to me that Eddie, being the first Iron Man replacement many years before the next, gets little notice or accolades for his brief time in the role.

Martinex1:  Perhaps the lack of attention to Eddie is because in issue #22 of the series, in his inaugural battle in the suit, the fighter is seriously beaten.  Unfortunately the novice Eddie runs into both the Titanium Man and the Crimson Dynamo, two of Iron Man's most notorious foes during the cold war.  Not only do they leave Eddie unconscious and near death but along the way Tony's girlfriend Janice Cord is killed.  It was not a great first appearance by the new Iron Man.   Tony had to throw on a spare armor and to save his friend.

Martinex1:  Eddie went on to have some further adventures.  I liked when he appeared, still recovering from the brain injury with his head bandaged, always jumping into the fray to help.   He also transformed into the Freak to battle Iron Man, but I prefer to focus on the hero Eddie March and hope that Marvel will find a more noticeable role for him in the future.

Redartz:  Fascinating tale, there; one totally unfamiliar to this reader. I was late to the Golden Avenger, and the only replacement Iron Man I knew was one James Rhodes. Interesting how Eddie was portrayed with serious health issues, just as Stark himself was famous for. Perhaps that golden metal suit serves as a symbolic invulnerable exterior, concealing a quite vulnerable interior.
Ultron Mark 12:

Martinex1: That is an interesting observation Red.  Let's change gears to discuss the mad villain Ultron.  You may ask how does he fit into our overall theme.  Tosay's attention on Ultron is because no matter how many times he is dismantled, melted, or generally destroyed, he comes back as a new and perhaps improved version of himself.  Way back during the early Roy Thomas and John Buscema era of the Avengers (Issues 53 and 54) the story of Ultron began.  In flashback we saw this odd vacuum cleaner looking entity that Hank Pym created.  From the beginning, the mechanical nightmare had a problem with his dear old dad.  I like to note that Hank Pym had red hair during this timeframe (I guess to distinguish him from Steve Rogers, Donald Blake, and Clint Barton).

Martinex1: During the same arc, the mysterious Crimson Cowl was revealed to be a second iteration of Ultron.

Martinex1: The Avengers did a number on this Ultron  resulting in a series of replacements..

Martinex1: He constantly returned again and again, renumbering himself with upgrades including an Adamantium shell.

Martinex1: But I want to pay particular attention to a version that appeared in the pages of West Coast Avengers.  I believe this Ultron to be the most compelling yet frightening to appear.   In this iteration, Ultron has a better relationship with his "dad" and christens himself "Ultron Mark 12" to sound more human.   He loves Pym and even hugs the man.  I found that strangely creepy because up until this point there was never a reason to trust Ultron, who was indeed a free thinking Artificial Intelligence.  The uncertainty of the situation and its unexpectedness makes it all the more strange.

Martinex1:  Eventually Ultron 11 reactivated itself to confront the odd and friendly robot, and Mark 12 ends the fray while destroying himself in sacrifice.   The story was relatively brief, but as it was ongoing I had a hope that a reformed and very different Ultron would be placed on the Avengers team.  It would have been fascinating to have had a character that created such a sense of discomfort and uncertainty.  It was a motif missing from the Avengers for some time - the unknown and perhaps unpredictable partner.  Perhaps it was  a missed opportunity.


The Big Man and Crime-Master:

Martinex1:  Now let's leap from a character that in some forms had an Oedipal complex to the Romeo and Juliet style reappearance of the Big Man and Crime-Master from Spider-Man comics.   The two were featured rather prominently in early Amazing Spider-Man books. and upon first reading of their activities I thought they were destined to be key enemies of Peter Parker in their roles as opposing New York crime bosses.  Alas, that was not to occur and both were killed off rather early during Spidey's career.

Martinex1:  But reappear they did in the pages of Marvel Team-Up.  While still operating in opposite factions, they were involved in a cockamamie scheme to kidnap the Human Torch and sell him to the highest bidder.   In issue #40, Spider-Man teamed up with the Sons of the Tiger (in their first color appearance) to take down the villains.  

Martinex1:  The book featured one of the Sal Buscema's best double-page spreads.   The Sandman and the Enforcers were thrown into the mix for an added element of mayhem.

Martinex1: But you may be asking how these rather obscure gangster-style villains returned.  Well it turns out, in rather melodramatic fashion, that the children of the originals took on the mantle of their fathers to enact revenge on Spider-Man. And in heartbreaking fashion, Crime-Master kills the Big Man only to find out it was his lover. Take a look! I loved this comic as a kid, but there are so many aspects of its convoluted plot that under scrutiny don't pass the sniff test.  The whole exploit was a wild mess, but somehow it still seems like a perfectly twisted snapshot of the Bronze Age. 

The Zodiac

Martinex1:  One of my favorite villain teams is the Zodiac, for really no other reason than their appearances trigger a nice memory from when I was first introduced to the team.  Little did I know that they would be resurrected in different forms over the years.  From crime lords to LMDs, from the pages of The Avengers to the stories in The Defenders, I enjoyed every moment.

Martinex1: Another Sal Buscema panel caught my attention immediately (the team's introduction was in Avengers #71).   Who couldn't like a guy with ram's horns, another with a bull's head, and a lion; throw in a fish and a crab too.  As a youngster this made total sense.

Martinex1:  After a series of battles with the Avengers, Scorpio recreated the evil team in the pages of The Defenders.  This time though the villainous leader, crazed with a compulsive focus on his age and possible demise, builds Life Model Decoys to create the new Zodiac.  Behind the scenes, rumor has it that artist Keith Giffen redesigned the characters because he wasn't confident he could handle the originals' appearances well.

Martinex1: I don't have much more to comment on these oddballs, but I did want to share some more fun art from the tales.  I will admit that I prefer the dynamic visuals of the originals.

Nomad and the Ameridroid:

Martinex1: We all know that Steve Rogers adopted the identity of Nomad during an iconic story arc in the pages of Captain America. While questioning the actions of the government and his role as a symbol, Rogers changes his look but continued to fight crime.  But did you know  that many years later another Nomad came along.  The character Edward Ferbel, a B-movie star, put on the costume and stole the identity much to Cap's dismay.   The goofy and incompetent hero put civilians at risk during his seemingly lazy and untrained adventures.  

Martinex1: The new Nomad was being manipulated and used by the Ameridroid and a villain named the Teacher (who later turned out to be the Red Skull).  This all occurred in a three-part story during the early part of J. M. DeMatteis' stint as the Cap writer.The Ameridroid himself was a twisted replacement.  His android 20 foot frame was given the mind of a dying Nazi and the physique of Captain America.   The villain quickly realized that his large stature made it impossible to interact with other humans and live a normal life.  Why he chose a 20 foot body to begin with was a mystery.

Martinex1:  When the Ameridroid returns after years off the radar, he confronts Cap and the new Nomad.  It is all supposed to be an act in a manipulative scheme to further the credibility of Edward Ferbel, but the poor buffoon was just a pawn in a vicious game and the giant guns him down.  I was about 12 years old when I first read this tale and it blew me away.  Mike Zeck's pencils leapt off of the page.  I still like this story.  In the history of Marvel Comics though it has a strange pedigree. This arc ran shortly after John Byrne and Roger Stern left the book;  according to the legends of their departure it was over a dispute in which they wanted to publish a three issue Red Skull story.  If true, I don't know why DeMatteis and Zeck's version made the cut but Byrne and Stern's did not.

Phil Urich: The Green Goblin
Martinex1: You may remember Ben Urich, the dedicated crime reporter from the pages of Daredevil.  But you may not realize that his nephew also had a role in Marvel comics.  For a short period Phil Urich  adopted the role of the Green Goblin and he was a hero.  We don't cover comics from the '90s much here at BitBA, but this particular book I found rather entertaining.  This  Goblin was reminiscent of early Spider-Man tales with a sometimes reluctant but fun hero doing his best but often coming up short.   Tom DeFalco wrote the series and he seemed to carry that lively, humorous, yet emotional approach to his Spider-Girl character as well.  Unfortunately, later iterations of Phil Urich transformed him into a villain and that never sat well with me.

Barton Hamilton: The Green Goblin

Redartz:  And here we have another iteration of the Goblin. Most any Marvel fan knows that Norman Osborn was the original Green Goblin, and most also know that Osborn's son Harry (and  Peter's best friend) also assumed the Goblin's identity. But for a short but memorable story arc in 1978, there was another  Goblin: one Barton "Bart" Hamilton, who happened to be Harry's analyst. One would think that would violate patient confidentiality somehow...

Martinex1:  This one is all yours Red.  I am very curious about this story, but until you mentioned it I had no idea it existed.  You are the Spider-Man expert, fill me in...



Redartz:  The second Goblin, Harry Osborn, has a long history of ,shall we say, mental difficulties. So it's not surprising that he ended up in a psychiatrist's chair. Unfortunately this one, Bart Hamilton, made some rather improper use of hypnosis, learning Osborn's Goblin secrets, and even sending the unsuspecting Harry on a mission photographing Spider-Man (while disposing of the clone's body).

Redartz:  Note the warehouse Hamilton is making use of; it looks to be the same as the one presented in Harry's Goblin debut in Amazing Spider-Man 136. Nice bit of visual memory on the part of Ross Andru.

Hamilton decided he would make a better Goblin, and planned to take over the NY mobs (interestingly, the same goals Norman Osborn had as the Goblin way back in the days of Ditko). 


But not so fast, Silvermane and the Maggia had other plans, requiring the neo Goblin to finish off Spider-man before they'd consider him. A series of battles ensued, Goblin vs. Spidey vs. Silvermane, from Radio City Music Hall to the incinerator where the clone's body was dumped. And to add to the mix, Harry eventually escaped his captivity and joined the battle. This led to Hamilton's death; blown up by his own explosive device. It just goes to show; don't cross Harry Osborn. A few years later, he took on another Goblin (a Hobgoblin, to be specific) whom he felt was trying to steal his thunder.
Martinex1:  Wow that is a weird tale, but I see that you have even more Spidey villains in store for us with one of my all time favorite villains next.

Danny Berkhart: Mysterio

Redartz: Also presenting my personal favorite Spidey foe, Mysterio. That is, a Mysterio. The original, Quentin Beck, has died and returned as frequently as Norman  Osborn himself, a fact pertinent to this tale...

In ASM , the story begins with Spider-Man at the wheel of that infamous Bronze age device, the Spider-Mobile. Evading the police, Spidey speeds down what he thinks is an alley, but this mysterious fog swirling around is actually disguising a pier. So, car and driver end up in the Hudson River. 


Later in the book, when Peter returns to the pier seeking an explanation for his error, Mysterio appears, leading our  hero on a merry chase involving a Mack Truck and a variety of Spider-man's other foes. And when Peter shows up at the Daily Bugle offices at the end of the book, Ned Leeds informs him that Mysterio actually died in prison, causing Peter to begin doubting his sanity (a tactic which Mysterio has used ever since his first appearance).

In the story's second part, Mysterio's deceptions continue: illusions of Spidey's rogues gallery keep appearing, including a poorly-timed vision of the Kingpin during a phone call to Aunt May. 

Peter continues to question his senses, until he sees another vision upon leaving the Bugle office: a certain young blonde lady familiar to all Spider-Man fans. Seeing Gwen really sets him off, allowing him go shake off the muddying effects of Mysterio's devices. One thing that bothered me a bit here- Pete never questions how Mysterio knew to send an image of Gwen, as he didn't know Spider-Man's identity. All of  his images were of foes; the Gwen Peter spies is actually our first glimpse of the clone Gwen who was soon to be revealed.

Anyway, the furious Spider-Man tracks down Mysterio and a quick battle ensues in his lair.  But this Mysterio's inexperience shows, and when Spider-Man unmasks him, he is revealed as Danny Berkhart- a stunt man friend of Beck's who was given the original Mysterio's equipment. Thus ended the tale of Berkhart, but the Quentin Beck Mysterio was to return again, and again, and again...

Martinex1: I am curious to see what they do with Mysterio in the upcoming Spider-Man movie.  I believe it was just announced that Jake Gyllenhaal has been cast in the role of the villain.

Blackie Drago, the Vulture

Redartz:  When you think of the Vulture, if you're like me, you picture the avian-appearing Adrian Toomes- the original Vulture, as introduced in Amazing Spider-Man 2. And old Ade made several more appearances before a replacement tried to steal his wings.

ASM 48 introduced us to Blackie Drago, the Vulture's confidante in prison. Alas, Adrian is literally on his deathbed, and is revealing to Blackie the secrets of his famous wings, including where to find them (intending that Blackie finish off the web-slinger for him). Of course you know what they say about honor among thieves, and so Blackie takes the opportunity (and the costume) to enrich himself, looting the city in the process. 

Eventually he does run up against Spidey, and actually comes out on top...

However, never count a good villain down. Toomes, enraged and energized by Blackie's betrayal, pulls himself back to the living and escapes, facing down his younger version in an aerial battle (which also involved Kraven the Hunter, but that's beside our point today). Sadly for Blackie, experience counts, and he was soundly defeated by the aged flier. Both Vultures battled again a bit over a year later, in ASM 63 and 64. As far as I know, Mr. Drago never appeared again. Mr. Toomes, however, continues to fly the skies over NY to this day.

 Redartz:  Thanks for joining us today, everyone! And if any moral can be gleaned from the stories of all these replacements, it is this: To Thine Own Self Be True!
Martinex1: It was a wild ride today and we were glad to be a part of the Super Blog Team-Up.  We hope you enjoyed this brief roll call of replacements.  If we don't post this Saturday, it is because we are taking a nap after digging through the piles of back issues.  So please read the post twice if you get bored!  Or better yet, hop on over to the other blogs from today's team up...

Bronze Age Babies

Chasing Amazing

And be sure to check us all out regularly and come on back in July for another Super Blog Team-Up!  Cheers!


  1. OMG! This is quite a bit! Hello to all! I'm "Lost in Time" on Twitter. As you know, I share the Back in the Bronze Age passion. The Bart Hamilton story was the first arc I ever read an thoroughly understood. I remember ASM #133 being my first comic off the rack, but ASM #176 launched the "I need to know what happens next" compulsion. Len Wein did such a fabulous job of leaving the reader on the edge at the end of each issue in the arc. My favorite was the final page of ASM 178. I really thought Aunt May was going to die. I kid you not - it shook me up. Thanks for posting this - I'll be back to comment on the Iron Man story and others.

  2. Great read! You really took the idea of the 'stand-in' or 'replacement' and ran with it! Bravo!

  3. Man, what a meaty post, gentlemen! So much to digest here, so to speak.
    First, since it was way before my time, I was completely unaware of the story involving Eddie March subbing as Iron Man - many, many years before Jim Rhodes did the same thing. It's puzzling that this bit of IM history was completely ignored by later creative teams.
    And similarly, the Bizarro Ultron from West Coast Avengers was after my time (so far, I've only read the initial issues of Byrne's run on that series). I have to say, though, that I like the idea, and for some reason it reminds me of Jarvis from the MCU, who then became the Vision...

    Zodiac has always intrigued me as well, and it makes sense to have a team of super-baddies with that astrological motif. I've liked the few stories I've seen them in (esp. the Scorpio arc in Defenders) but to be honest, it's a group that's never really lived up to its potential, in that they seemed to show up and then get taken down pretty easily like a bunch of amateurs or losers.
    Incidentally, I can't help but notice that in both of those images of the entire team lined up, Taurus is always depicted as really small and way in the back. You'd think a guy named after a bull would be the big bruiser right out in front.

    And nice that you mentioned the Bart Hamilton iteration of Green Goblin (I was in fact wondering if you would cover him as I was reading through your post). I just recently read Len Wein's run on ASM - the first time I've read it not only all the way through but also in proper order, as initially I picked up some of the later issues off of spinner racks, and then read some of the earlier issues as reprints in Marvel Tales. Even though I knew the twist with this new Goblin's identity, I agree that Wein did a really good job of building up the suspense and mystery around him.

    As for the Vulture, there's no substitutes for old Adrian in my book...

  4. Great post, fellas! Researched, compiled, and presented in the Mighty BitBA manner!

    I'm with Edo - some of these replacements were new to me today. Like Lost in Time, I was high on the Bart Hamilton Goblin storyline. But Mysterio? Meh... under the bubble, they're all the same!


  5. I remember most of these (especially the Spidey stuff, as he's my favourite); I never minded the "new versions" of older villains. There were several different Hobgoblins too, though some of that falls outside the Bronze Age. And of course, DC had different versions of many of their top heroes ... Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, GL, Flash, Green Arrow ...

  6. I didn't know any of these, but very glad to have learned about them! Just when you thought you could rest on your Bronze laurels ...

    My only quibble is that I don't recall ever seeing that gender balance given to "Zodiac II." It obviously was not the case in Defenders #50. Does anybody have a reference for where they appeared?

    I think that it's interesting that Virgo was originally the only woman on the squad, and Libra wasn't interpreted that way. Both are feminine nouns in Latin. Mantis would definitely have had a very different backstory.

    Thanks for this!

  7. Heartfelt thanks, everyone, for joining us today, and for commenting!

    Jack Alberti- many thanks for your kind words, comments and interest! Your high opinion of the work of Len Wein is quite justified; his work on many titles was stellar but his work on Spider-Man is a favorite. And we share a close proximity starting point for our comics- you were one month behind me (I started with Amazing Spider-Man 132).

    Mark S.- Thank you, sir; very glad you enjoyed the post!

    Edo- your comment about Ultron in the West Coast Avengers hit home with me; like you I left comics before those stories appeared. But that tale sounds intriguing, definitely worth picking up. And yes, like Jack noted, Wein did a fine job on the book. Sometimes his tenure seems to get overlooked, between the attention to Gerry Conway's era and Roger Stern's.

    Doug- you're right, under the dome they're all Mysterio. Nonetheless, I always liked Quentin Beck; perhaps it was the Spock ears (on the 1967 Spider-Man cartoon, Beck sported an unmistakable pair of ears resembling those of a certain Vulcan).

    Selenarch- very glad to point you towards some new Bronze Age action. There was so much available back then, and so much of it that each of us missed at the time. Makes it fun to look up some gems we didn't get the first time around...

  8. Man, I have, like 75% of the issues being discussed here-- some but a faint memory, trapped in boxes in the basement.

    The "replacement/stand-in" shtick got so darned over-used by the turn of the century (and into it) that I think its use can be linked as a contributing factor to the eventual abandonment of continuity, y'know?

    Did you folks know there was a period (post-Bronze Age, tho I can't narrow it down from memory at this point) where even the Incredible Hulk ended up with a similar Stand-In? It may have been shortly before or shortly after Heroes Reborn-- but Bruce Banner was, for the umpteenth time, "cured" of being the Hulk (or was he just supposedly dead?), and somehow in his place Rick Jones became a younger, hipper, longer-hairder Incredible Hulk via--- god knows what mishap. . . It was not a good period for that title, to say the least. And it didn't last long.

    HB--- can't chime in w/out unpacking a Hulk reference!

  9. HB- hey, great to hear from you pal! Good thing you brought up the Green Giant. We seem to have covered many characters and books today but missed him. Rick Jones as the Hulk? Hmmm....and wasn't Thunderbolt Ross a Hulk recently? Hard to keep track, how many Hulks/ Iron Man (Men?) / Spideys have there been...

  10. I am late to the game, but wanted to say thanks for a plentiful post!

    First of all, I never even heard of Eddie March as a character, let alone replacement Iron Man! I now need to look into how much these issues will throw me back.

    Secondly, I can't think of another time I was as interested in Zodiac as much as this post has now made me interested in Zodiac.

    In terms of Bronze Age replacements I frequently think of, Hector Ayala aka The White Tiger was replaced by a few people, including his niece and his sister (and once, I think, by an actual White Tiger turned human). More recently I liked Detective Watanbe taking over the role of The Wraith (from the 1980s, Jean DeWolfe's brother, killed by Scourge of the Underworld). I kind of wished she'd get her own book.

  11. So yeah, Red--

    That whole explosion of Multiple Hulks happened right near the very end of when I abandoned ship (after, like, 40 years) on buying comics for good. The Red Hulk was indeed a transformed Thunderbolt Ross (in The Land of Jumping Sharks, this was a par-for-the-course development--). And there was a Blue-Hulk/Abomination-replacement. . .which was Rick Jones again. There was our beloved She-Hulk (love her, personally), as well as a Red She-Hulk, which was a completely bonkers Betty Ross-Talbot-(someone else)-Banner, going through her umpteenth transformative degradation at the hands of shallow writers. And there were, I believe, two different Son of Hulks. . . possibly both products of his time on Planet Hulk-? Don't fully recall.

    A train-wreck of continuity mis-haps and bigger-is-always-better laziness in the writing. Because when EVERYONE is the Strongest One There Is, then of course NO ONE is the Strongest One There Is. . .

    (One positive side-note, though-- I do recall that at least one of the writers had done their research clear back to the early Tales to Astonish run, 'cause they brought in references and supporting elements that were pulled directly from those stories. I thought that was kinda cool. . . )



  12. Great, fun post, as usual!

    I'm a big fan of the legacy villains Green Goblin and Hobgoblin. Bringing Norman Osborn back always seemed dumb because, besides undercutting a classic comic book death, the Goblin identity had become Spider-Man's true arch-nemesis precisely because the person under the mask kept changing, making the Goblin persona a truly immortal threat.

    (kind of like an infectious symbiote before there was a symbiote)

    This was more a Silver Age replacement, but can anyone follow exactly when Magneto was replaced by a robot? The timeline's weird, I know one was discovered during an Avengers crossover after Toad killed it, and Mesmero learned about another during the Thomas/Adams Sentinel storyline.

    -david p.

  13. Rick Jones became the Hulk between the Byrne & PAD runs (I think Al Milgrom was on the title). I don't even know if I read the issue in which it happens. The Leader drained his gamma-ness and became the Jiffy Pop-headed version shortly after PAD & Todd McFarlane took over.

    Great read as usual, guys!

    - Mike Loughlin

  14. If any of you catch the DisneyXD cartoons, Hulk and the Agents Of SMASH is made up of Hulk, She-Hulk, A-Bomb (Rick Jones), Red Hulk and Skaar. Skaar may or may not be Hulk's son. The show is Rick's attempt to portray the Hulk as a hero and not a monster. I wouldn't set my DVR, but that's just me...

    Good to hear from you HB!!!

    (Slip sliding away, slip sliding away
    You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away

    Whoah and I know a man, he came from my hometown
    He wore his passion for his woman like a thorny crown
    He said Dolores, I live in fear
    My love for you's so overpowering, I'm afraid that I will disappear

    Slip sliding away, slip sliding away
    You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away

    I know a woman, (who) became a wife
    These are the very words she uses to describe her life
    She said a good day ain't got no rain
    She said a bad day is when I lie in the bed
    And I think of things that might have been

    Slip sliding away, slip sliding away
    You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away

    And I know a father who had a son
    He longed to tell him all the reasons for the things he'd done
    He came a long way just to explain
    He kissed his boy as he lay sleeping
    Then he turned around and he headed home again

    Slip sliding away, slip sliding away
    You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away

    Whoah God only knows, God makes his plan
    The information's unavailable to the mortal man
    We're workin' our jobs, collect our pay
    Believe we're gliding down the highway, when in fact we're slip sliding away

    Slip sliding away, slip sliding away
    You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away

    Slip sliding away, slip sliding away
    You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away).